Will the Constitution be thrown away?
It looks like Gen. Tommy Franks has some pretty dire preditions for the future of our democracy (link via Pandagon) :
- Discussing the hypothetical dangers posed to the U.S. in the wake of Sept. 11, Franks said that ?the worst thing that could happen? is if terrorists acquire and then use a biological, chemical or nuclear weapon that inflicts heavy casualties.
If that happens, Franks said, ?… the Western world, the free world, loses what it cherishes most, and that is freedom and liberty we?ve seen for a couple of hundred years in this grand experiment that we call democracy.?
Franks then offered ?in a practical sense? what he thinks would happen in the aftermath of such an attack.
?It means the potential of a weapon of mass destruction and a terrorist, massive, casualty-producing event somewhere in the Western world ? it may be in the United States of America ? that causes our population to question our own Constitution and to begin to militarize our country in order to avoid a repeat of another mass, casualty-producing event. Which in fact, then begins to unravel the fabric of our Constitution. Two steps, very, very important.?
Franks didn?t speculate about how soon such an event might take place.
Already, critics of the U.S. Patriot Act, rushed through Congress in the wake of the Sept. 11 attacks, have argued that the law aims to curtail civil liberties and sets a dangerous precedent.
But Franks? scenario goes much further. He is the first high-ranking official to openly speculate that the Constitution could be scrapped in favor of a military form of government.
Okay….before you let the thought of the U.S. turning into a military dictatorship [insert sarcastic comment here] keep you up an night, this quote later in the article will make you take his judgment with a grain of salt :
- ?As I look at President Bush, I think he will ultimately be judged as a man of extremely high character. A very thoughtful man, not having been appraised properly by those who would say he?s not very smart. I find the contrary. I think he?s very, very bright. And I suspect that he?ll be judged as a man who led this country through a crease in history effectively. Probably we?ll think of him in years to come as an American hero.?
Y’know, I remember seeing Tommy Franks during the war giving a ton of press conferences, and I never thought he’d turn out to be this big an ass kisser.
Seriously Tommy, you really ought to try pulling your nose out of the boss’s ass every once in a while….
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I’m OK with tossing the Constitution, provided it’s for the purposes of taking out all the “Blacks are only 1/16th human” and other crap. The Constitution is, in many ways, a horribly outdated document. (Blasphemy!) But unfortunately, we cannot trust our current crop of pols to just scrap the bad stuff, and keep the rest.
Comment by Darth Spock Plug — November 21, 2003 @ 6:59 pm
Tommy Franks hit the nail on the penis head. Give the brownshirt some credit.
Comment by The Real Ronnie — November 21, 2003 @ 11:45 pm
Darth Sock Plug, let me be clear that I’m about to say some very excited things, but I am not trying o make personal attacks on your character. I don’t know you, and I apologzie for any insult that may come. I’m not trying to disrespect you, but I have to state my views urgently.
I hope you’re just kidding. As everyone knows, the 3/5 clause HAS been taken out. It’s called the 14th, 15th, and 16th amendments. “Blacks” haven’t been legally been considered 3/5 of a person since the civil war. And yes, I’m fully aware that this didn’t cure racism, only that the legal protections of the bill of rights were officially extended to include all citizens and residents of the US, and slavery was abolished. We still had another century to go before we fixed most of the crap that was left over, and we still have some ways to go.
Furthermore, I don’t want to split hairs, but technically, it wasn’t “Blacks” that were considered 3/5 a person, it was slaves that were considered 3/5 of a person. Of course, Dredd Scott, probably the worst Supreme Court Decision ever, kind of extended that to freed slaves and by default, African Americans, but as you ought to know, within 10 years of Dredd Scott, the US got into a bloody civil war over the issue.
Now this is NOT even remotely an improvement to be sure, and I don’t mean to ignore the fact that slaves in the US were in fact all African America, making the 3/5 clause racist in fact if not in actual letter. My point is that, as you ought to be fully aware, AMENDING the constitution is how we remove bad stuff from, or update, our “outdated” document. Women couldn’t vote before 1920. Senators weren’t elected until the 1920s. Alcohol was illegal, and the re-legal. We makes changes, and then further changes.
I don’t know why so many of us on the left harbor these idiotic fantasies of chucking everything and starting over, but they need to wake up and fucking realize that the day that document is terminated, they aren’t going to be the ones who get to make the next version. You know that expression “When the revolution comes, so and so is going to be the first against the wall”? That’s you, and that’s us. Thinkers, intellectuals, creative people, liberals, non fundamentalists, ordinary people who want the right to say what they think, people who believe in free expression, people who aren’t Christian. They’re going to be the ones who get shot. I say that because you need to stop over-fucking-estmating the number of people who listen to the opinions of people lik you. You aren’t going to get to be the great smart guy who halps us rebuild, and this isn’t “City hall”. I don’t say that to imply that left isn’t better than right, because left is obviously better.
That outdated document is the only thing that may be keeping thugs from killing you (And looking at the abortion issue, do you doubt that thugs who disagree with their enemies, particularly on the right, might be more than willing to do so if you were declared the enemy?). You ought to be bloody fucking grateful for the existence of the constitution, and in fact, you ought to be willing to fight and die to make sure that it isn’t overturned or overthrown. I just can’t figure out how the obviousness of all this isn’t apparent to you.
If that “Outdated document” falls, the next batch of founding fathers aren’t going to be the brilliant but flawed people we got the first time around. Sure, they weren’t even remotely perfect, but if you read the so-called outdated document you have such contempt for, maybe you’d realize that they had JUST FOUGHT AN 8 YEAR FUCKING WAR OF INDEPENDENCE, and maybe they lacked the willingness to fight another war just to keep the Southern states from leaving the new country. Was it a moral decision, no, and all it did was postpone the inevitable, which was a civil war over slavery 3 generations later. But given the circumstances, I might be inclined to forgive them a little bit. I probably would no want to go to war again either.
No, the next Founding fathers are going to be a bunch of right wing Christian Conservatives, corporate lobbyists, and neo-fascists. People like you and I will be ignored, possibly marginalized and most likely declared personas no grata. With bullets. And that is a far worse fate than any flaws our constitution has. As long as we all, left and right, agree that it’s the law of the land, we can disagree, no matter how strongly, and still solve our shit within the frame work of that document. Once it’s gone, we’re fucked. Completely. And that’s not a good thing, ever.
What the general seems to be talking about isn’t, as you insinuate, chucking the thing warts and all and starting over. That would suck, since the country is currently more dominated by religious fundamentalists, and not by latent leftists. A new government would result in liberals and non Christians being systematically persecuted, or worse, outright civil war.
He’s talking about chucking the Bill of rights and in particular, chucking the Writ of Habeas Corpus, which as you ought to know is the right to due process under the law, essentially the basis for our entire way of life (That is, if you consider the concept of Rule of Law to be the thing which distinguishes our civilization from previous civilizations). What he is saying is that a new 911 would result in martial law, and that in all likelihood, that martial law state would never, ever end.
Now I’m not sure what you think would happen if the constitution were suddenly scrapped, but it’s a pretty terrifying idea. One which our so called president ought to disavow as soon as he gets back to the country. That’s the thing I’m terrified by. Why hasn’t Bush said anything like “Sorry, but let me assure you that General franks is wrong and I firmly reject his comments”. I’m also bothered by what seems to be the lack of fear in his tone. It’s hard to tell if he’s being cautionary, warning us to be vigilant, or if he’s admitting a fantasy of replacing our democracy with military, Roman Empire Style governance. Either way, he’s a fucking idiot who needs to be put down and quick. I don’t want his horrible thoughts to become some terrible new right wing meme designed to make liberals look as though they support dictatorships, even when it’s conservatives who would like that the most.
Anyway, I for one hope that our non elected president says something about this, and if he doesnt’, I hope the dems grow some balls and hammer him for it.
Comment by The Eligible Ross Lincoln — November 22, 2003 @ 10:53 am
I’d also like to apologize for all the damn typos.
Comment by The Eligible Ross Lincoln — November 22, 2003 @ 10:56 am
Actually, Ross, I think we agree. Your comment “the day that document is terminated, they aren’t going to be the ones who get to make the next version” is what my point was. I think it would be great to rewrite the Constitution, but only in a Fantasy world where it could actually be improved. I’m happy with using Amendments, given the fact that anyone re-writing it now would be an ass.
Comment by Darth Spock Plug — November 23, 2003 @ 9:32 am