My point is that it’s not acceptable to excuse people who can’t be bothered to think critically, and just accept the mess we get into because they somehow think they should still exercise their vote. I am more angry, actually, at people who DO know what’s what, and DON’T vote, because they think it’s a drop in the bucket or whatever rationalization they use to get out of a 20-minute duty every few years.

I wasn’t actually disagreeing with your analysis of why he might not have known better, and for all I know, he did know better but just wanted to show his support; I put my hand over my heart and get annoyed at people that talk during the Anthem too, but there is a line, and being patriotic without knowing anything about the ideals of this country or about historic and contemporary abuses of those ideals is NOT worthy of excuse or respect.

I fail to see why you should support the warriors, under these circumstances.

I wouldn’t necessarily use the word “support”, but I think the root cause our soldiers are dying for is just, even if the wars themselves and specifics therein are not.

Incidentally, in any army, you’re only supposed to obey lawful orders. Obeying unlawful orders is a war crime. So is compelling troops to obey unlawful orders.

I agree. I exagerrated a bit on this point, but I did want to stress that if Tillman (or any other soldiers) disagree with this war, it’s not like they can just go AWOL.

Don’t you think it’s about time people stopped piling on Ted Rall for saying things they don’t want to hear, and suggesting that he should be silenced or censored? Or do all freedoms have to be abandoned in the name of electing Mr. Kerry?

Huh?? Who’s saying Rall should be censored? What does this have to do with John Kerry?

Also, the excuse that “some people don’t read the Nation” doesn’t fly with me; if someone can’t read between the lines, even on Fox fucking news, they should have their vote taken away

Sorry, but that’s just wrong. Saying someone should have their vote taken away for being uninformed is as elitist as the conservatives who said that anyone who had trouble using a butterfly ballot in 2000 is “too dumb to vote”. If laziness is the reason for America being horribly misinformed, does this mean we can stop blaming media consolidation, FCC strong-arming, etc.?

here’s a question: why do we on the left criticise rall for his “shock” but look past michael moore’s innacuarcy? or his shock?

Because Michael Moore doesn’t intentionally say hurtful things just to see what kind of response they’ll get.

what about stern? everyone on the left loves him now but his attitude towards women and the whole “homeless hollywood squares” thing give me pause.

Well, we may share a common enemy with Stern, but in the end he’s still a sleazy opportunist.

here’s a question: why do we on the left criticise rall for his “shock” but look past michael moore’s innacuarcy? or his shock? what about stern? everyone on the left loves him now but his attitude towards women and the whole “homeless hollywood squares” thing give me pause.

everyone on “our side” has thier faults and shortcommings (except amy goodman-don’t no one talk trash on my woman!). none of these people, including rall, are nearly as arrogant, mean, and shocking as the people in the whitehouse.

That said, I also agree with Ross and Josh about the fact that Bush and his ilk are perfectly happy for us to focus on individual tragedies at the expense of focusing on his craptacular administration; whether Tillman was a racist or not (I don’t know), whether it’s predictable for people to side with their leader or not (it is), Bush is “an evildoer” and the fact remains that none of these people would’ve died if he hadn’t been so upset that Saddam tried to kill his Pappy.

Also, the excuse that “some people don’t read the Nation” doesn’t fly with me; if someone can’t read between the lines, even on Fox fucking news, they should have their vote taken away… it is not up to those of us who know what’s going on to live at the mercy of those who would rather watch Survivor.

Incidentally, in any army, you’re only supposed to obey lawful orders. Obeying unlawful orders is a war crime. So is compelling troops to obey unlawful orders.

Don’t you think it’s about time people stopped piling on Ted Rall for saying things they don’t want to hear, and suggesting that he should be silenced or censored? Or do all freedoms have to be abandoned in the name of electing Mr. Kerry?

Jeez. Ever? He wasn’t in the middle of a fight for the whole six months… And I’m not sure I agree with this reasoning anyway. But “ever” is definitly overkill.

I wish he hadn’t phrased it so it looked like an attack on Tillman.

It didn’t just “look like” an attack on Tillman, it was an attack on Tillman. And an unfair one at that. His “do I get to kill Arabs?” line was so inappropriate I wouldn’t blame any paper for permanently pulling his strip.

I’m also personally offended by the last panel of the strip that subtly implies that anyone who considers Tillman to be a hero is somehow blind to the wrongs of the Bush Administration. (My view on this is best summed up by the title of this post.) It’s possible to decry the war and mourn the dead at the same time, but I guess that requires a level of complexity that Rall is incapable of.

This kind of strip is standard fare for Ted Rall though. While I have a lot in common with Rall politically, his motivation often seems to be to piss people off and get attention. I got over trying to use shock value as a persuasive tactic when I was fifteen, but apparently Rall (and his conservative doppelganger, Ann Coulter) never really grew up.

now, ANYWONE who willingly reads the book of mormon just aint all that bright.

“And Pat was not religious, so he’s not with God, he’s just (expletive) dead.”

Anyway, with respect to the Soldiers who have died, and to the wasted sacrifices they’ve made, let’s honor them as tragic heroes. And I’m with you on the question of Afganistan – they wewre harboring our enemies and we had the right.

But let’s not distract from the point that Tillman, like ALL dead soldiers, are being used to justify this hyorrible evil war, by these evil, lying, hypocritical, warmongering bastards who hate us and this country.