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	<title>Comments on: Non-Threatening</title>
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		<title>By: bexx</title>
		<link>http://www.thetalentshow.org/2005/06/27/non-threatening/comment-page-1/#comment-7061</link>
		<dc:creator>bexx</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jul 2005 04:51:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetalentshow.org/wp/?p=1840#comment-7061</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;Appropriation has been consuming my life for the past 6 months – I am writing my thesis on graphic design appropriation. The Nike vs. Minor Threat debate is an example of the problems faced by designers when choosing to design by appropriation. Don’t get me wrong appropriation can work however there are so many factors that come into play when appropriating that it seems crossing the line is evitable. Designers should not ignore the content and context of the original appropriation. In Nikes case they should have examined Minor Threat philosophy and asked the question ‘Is the context of the album and band appropriate to Nike philosophy?’ Is there a common link? Although a common link could have been skateboard and the punk scene, Nike needs to ask themselves if the punk genre is enough to justify an appropriation. This is where designers face problems when appropriation, they don’t ask enough questions or put themselves in the original designers shoes. 

Homage is a word that is thrown around too much. It is a word that designers and company use to justify their influence. However, this doesn’t always end criticism. As a designer, I know that we look to a number of influences for ideas, call it homage if you want  - that is what we do. We speak in a familiar language that is accessible to the audience, through familiar typography, grids and images. What we should not do is misappropriate other designer’s work and hope that they will not find out – because they will. Ask yourself questions, make sure that if you are choosing to appropriated that the original meaning is not lost, create through content and context and put yourself in other peoples shoe. If anyone should have done, this Nike should have. &lt;/b&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>Appropriation has been consuming my life for the past 6 months – I am writing my thesis on graphic design appropriation. The Nike vs. Minor Threat debate is an example of the problems faced by designers when choosing to design by appropriation. Don’t get me wrong appropriation can work however there are so many factors that come into play when appropriating that it seems crossing the line is evitable. Designers should not ignore the content and context of the original appropriation. In Nikes case they should have examined Minor Threat philosophy and asked the question ‘Is the context of the album and band appropriate to Nike philosophy?’ Is there a common link? Although a common link could have been skateboard and the punk scene, Nike needs to ask themselves if the punk genre is enough to justify an appropriation. This is where designers face problems when appropriation, they don’t ask enough questions or put themselves in the original designers shoes. </p>
<p>Homage is a word that is thrown around too much. It is a word that designers and company use to justify their influence. However, this doesn’t always end criticism. As a designer, I know that we look to a number of influences for ideas, call it homage if you want  &#8211; that is what we do. We speak in a familiar language that is accessible to the audience, through familiar typography, grids and images. What we should not do is misappropriate other designer’s work and hope that they will not find out – because they will. Ask yourself questions, make sure that if you are choosing to appropriated that the original meaning is not lost, create through content and context and put yourself in other peoples shoe. If anyone should have done, this Nike should have. </b></p>
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		<title>By: basla</title>
		<link>http://www.thetalentshow.org/2005/06/27/non-threatening/comment-page-1/#comment-7060</link>
		<dc:creator>basla</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Jul 2005 03:27:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetalentshow.org/wp/?p=1840#comment-7060</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m personally pretty upset about Nike ripping off Minor Threat for all the reasons people talked about above, but what&#039;s even more upsetting is their history of labor abuses. Nike is notorious for their use of sweat shops and for child labor and they deserve to be boycotted. Unfortunately Nike bought Converse a few years back. I think it would be a great statement if punks (and everyone!) joined the boycott that&#039;s been going on for years now and stopped buying Converse and other Nike products. This Nike rip-off has generated a lot of talk, but I hope it will generate some action too. Otherwise Nike just got a lot of free publicity with no negative consequences.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m personally pretty upset about Nike ripping off Minor Threat for all the reasons people talked about above, but what&#8217;s even more upsetting is their history of labor abuses. Nike is notorious for their use of sweat shops and for child labor and they deserve to be boycotted. Unfortunately Nike bought Converse a few years back. I think it would be a great statement if punks (and everyone!) joined the boycott that&#8217;s been going on for years now and stopped buying Converse and other Nike products. This Nike rip-off has generated a lot of talk, but I hope it will generate some action too. Otherwise Nike just got a lot of free publicity with no negative consequences.</p>
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		<title>By: tomN!</title>
		<link>http://www.thetalentshow.org/2005/06/27/non-threatening/comment-page-1/#comment-7059</link>
		<dc:creator>tomN!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Jun 2005 16:19:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetalentshow.org/wp/?p=1840#comment-7059</guid>
		<description>GODDAMMIT!!!   i wrote a big long comment and then lost it when i hit the wrong button.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>GODDAMMIT!!!   i wrote a big long comment and then lost it when i hit the wrong button.</p>
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		<title>By: greg</title>
		<link>http://www.thetalentshow.org/2005/06/27/non-threatening/comment-page-1/#comment-7058</link>
		<dc:creator>greg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Jun 2005 23:54:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetalentshow.org/wp/?p=1840#comment-7058</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;There&#039;s a big difference between co-option and appropriating an image to comment on the original piece. You could make an argument that Nike is commenting on Minor Threat, I suppose. They are broadcasting their contempt for authenticity, for sure.&lt;/blockquote&gt;If that&#039;s the case, then aren&#039;t you just making the argument that Nike&#039;s comment on Minor Threat lacks validity? Can something like this only be considered appropriation if you agree with the message and approve of the entity doing the co-option? Or are you making the case that commercial art doesn&#039;t deserve the same considerations as noncommercial art? It seems that the difference between co-option and appropriation isn&#039;t as big as you imply. &lt;blockquote&gt;the little guy does deserve protection from being ground into little pieces by huge corporations&lt;/blockquote&gt;At what point does &quot;the little guy&quot; become one of the &quot;huge corporations&quot;? Is there a certain dollar amount at which a company&#039;s profits make them cross the line between &quot;us&quot; and &quot;them&quot;? It&#039;s pretty clear here, but what if it was a tiny punk label run by a guy in his bedroom vs. Dischord? I agree about the dynamics of this case, but emotional appeals tend to fall apart when the time comes to actually quantify this sort of thing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>There&#8217;s a big difference between co-option and appropriating an image to comment on the original piece. You could make an argument that Nike is commenting on Minor Threat, I suppose. They are broadcasting their contempt for authenticity, for sure.</p></blockquote>
<p>If that&#8217;s the case, then aren&#8217;t you just making the argument that Nike&#8217;s comment on Minor Threat lacks validity? Can something like this only be considered appropriation if you agree with the message and approve of the entity doing the co-option? Or are you making the case that commercial art doesn&#8217;t deserve the same considerations as noncommercial art? It seems that the difference between co-option and appropriation isn&#8217;t as big as you imply.<br />
<blockquote>the little guy does deserve protection from being ground into little pieces by huge corporations</p></blockquote>
<p>At what point does &#8220;the little guy&#8221; become one of the &#8220;huge corporations&#8221;? Is there a certain dollar amount at which a company&#8217;s profits make them cross the line between &#8220;us&#8221; and &#8220;them&#8221;? It&#8217;s pretty clear here, but what if it was a tiny punk label run by a guy in his bedroom vs. Dischord? I agree about the dynamics of this case, but emotional appeals tend to fall apart when the time comes to actually quantify this sort of thing.</p>
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		<title>By: Amanda Marcotte</title>
		<link>http://www.thetalentshow.org/2005/06/27/non-threatening/comment-page-1/#comment-7057</link>
		<dc:creator>Amanda Marcotte</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Jun 2005 23:36:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetalentshow.org/wp/?p=1840#comment-7057</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s a big difference between co-option and appropriating an image to comment on the original piece.  You could make an argument that Nike is commenting on Minor Threat, I suppose.  They are broadcasting their contempt for authenticity, for sure.  But the power differentials are exactly why people like me stand against this--the little guy does deserve protection from being ground into little pieces by huge corporations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s a big difference between co-option and appropriating an image to comment on the original piece.  You could make an argument that Nike is commenting on Minor Threat, I suppose.  They are broadcasting their contempt for authenticity, for sure.  But the power differentials are exactly why people like me stand against this&#8211;the little guy does deserve protection from being ground into little pieces by huge corporations.</p>
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		<title>By: greg</title>
		<link>http://www.thetalentshow.org/2005/06/27/non-threatening/comment-page-1/#comment-7056</link>
		<dc:creator>greg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Jun 2005 23:19:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetalentshow.org/wp/?p=1840#comment-7056</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I&#039;m a big supporter of copyleft and I believe the line is drawn as soon as you start taking something for commercial purposes.&lt;/blockquote&gt;I agree, but do you feel the same way about sampling? The copyleft movement had a field day with the Grey Album despite the fact that DJ Dangermouse burned copies of the album and shipped them to stores as &quot;promos&quot;. He made quite a handsome profit (mostly indirectly) based on his appropriation of intellectual property. 

I don&#039;t support Nike in this case, so I totally understand the emotional reaction that this case has recieved. But at the same time, I think it&#039;s incredibly hypocritical for anyone who spends so much energy fighting copyright laws to jump to Dischord&#039;s defense once somebody on &quot;our side&quot; is threatened. Appropriation is a two-way street, but for many people, artists rights only flows in the direction of their personal tastes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I&#8217;m a big supporter of copyleft and I believe the line is drawn as soon as you start taking something for commercial purposes.</p></blockquote>
<p>I agree, but do you feel the same way about sampling? The copyleft movement had a field day with the Grey Album despite the fact that DJ Dangermouse burned copies of the album and shipped them to stores as &#8220;promos&#8221;. He made quite a handsome profit (mostly indirectly) based on his appropriation of intellectual property. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t support Nike in this case, so I totally understand the emotional reaction that this case has recieved. But at the same time, I think it&#8217;s incredibly hypocritical for anyone who spends so much energy fighting copyright laws to jump to Dischord&#8217;s defense once somebody on &#8220;our side&#8221; is threatened. Appropriation is a two-way street, but for many people, artists rights only flows in the direction of their personal tastes.</p>
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		<title>By: tomN!</title>
		<link>http://www.thetalentshow.org/2005/06/27/non-threatening/comment-page-1/#comment-7055</link>
		<dc:creator>tomN!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Jun 2005 22:07:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetalentshow.org/wp/?p=1840#comment-7055</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;If it&#039;s okay for the little guy but not for Nike, then it&#039;s clear that the arguments have less to do with the specifics of this case and are more about how awful big corporations are under this intangible idea of power.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

my problem isn&#039;t with the &quot;big corporation&quot; it&#039;s with the meaning of an image being used against it&#039;s original purposes.  It&#039;s disrespectful to everything that DisChord stands for, and that&#039;s what pissed me off about it.  I don&#039;t care who it is- big corporation or small-time entrepeneur.  it&#039;s disrespectful bullshit.  and i think my sentiments to this case are very similar to your feelings about &quot;Litch&quot;. 

i think it&#039;s really cool of Nike to end it the way they did.  It was unlikely that DisChord would try to, or be able to, sue them.  What would DisChord do with all that money?  Probably give it all away to charity or give endless free tours and concerts for all their bands.  It&#039;s cool that Nike was smart enough, and conscientious enough to do the right thing here.  points for them.  i&#039;m not one of those total Nike haters, though.  I&#039;m sure they&#039;re still pissed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>If it&#8217;s okay for the little guy but not for Nike, then it&#8217;s clear that the arguments have less to do with the specifics of this case and are more about how awful big corporations are under this intangible idea of power.</p></blockquote>
<p>my problem isn&#8217;t with the &#8220;big corporation&#8221; it&#8217;s with the meaning of an image being used against it&#8217;s original purposes.  It&#8217;s disrespectful to everything that DisChord stands for, and that&#8217;s what pissed me off about it.  I don&#8217;t care who it is- big corporation or small-time entrepeneur.  it&#8217;s disrespectful bullshit.  and i think my sentiments to this case are very similar to your feelings about &#8220;Litch&#8221;. </p>
<p>i think it&#8217;s really cool of Nike to end it the way they did.  It was unlikely that DisChord would try to, or be able to, sue them.  What would DisChord do with all that money?  Probably give it all away to charity or give endless free tours and concerts for all their bands.  It&#8217;s cool that Nike was smart enough, and conscientious enough to do the right thing here.  points for them.  i&#8217;m not one of those total Nike haters, though.  I&#8217;m sure they&#8217;re still pissed.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe</title>
		<link>http://www.thetalentshow.org/2005/06/27/non-threatening/comment-page-1/#comment-7054</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Jun 2005 21:49:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetalentshow.org/wp/?p=1840#comment-7054</guid>
		<description>Perhaps if Nike let people use their images free of charge, for &quot;homage&quot; purposes, or to attack what they stand for (arguably what nike is doing vis-a-vis Dischord), then it would naturally follow that we should laugh at those who suddenly change their minds about Copyright law when the shoe (Ha!) is on the other foot.  But Nike is attempting to appropriate imagery aimed at its own distruction to sell its products, while suing those who use its imagery in equivalent ways.  Hypocrisy is upsetting with or without copyright law.

In a side note, I saw this imagry while temping for Nike earlier this year.  I was a waiter at a Nike conference for its international VIPs.  There were displays of the various affiliated product lines and a fashion show feaaturing very young female models who were ogled shamelessly by the male members of the audience.  
Free handouts explained Nike&#039;s marketing plan for this summer.  
Anyway, one of the cases had these t-shirts, along with other appropriated imagery, and it really freaked me out.  I thought Dischord had perhaps sold them the right to use the image, so I was pretty unhappy.  Of course, Copyright law is in place in part to prevent just such misunderstandings.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps if Nike let people use their images free of charge, for &#8220;homage&#8221; purposes, or to attack what they stand for (arguably what nike is doing vis-a-vis Dischord), then it would naturally follow that we should laugh at those who suddenly change their minds about Copyright law when the shoe (Ha!) is on the other foot.  But Nike is attempting to appropriate imagery aimed at its own distruction to sell its products, while suing those who use its imagery in equivalent ways.  Hypocrisy is upsetting with or without copyright law.</p>
<p>In a side note, I saw this imagry while temping for Nike earlier this year.  I was a waiter at a Nike conference for its international VIPs.  There were displays of the various affiliated product lines and a fashion show feaaturing very young female models who were ogled shamelessly by the male members of the audience.<br />
Free handouts explained Nike&#8217;s marketing plan for this summer.<br />
Anyway, one of the cases had these t-shirts, along with other appropriated imagery, and it really freaked me out.  I thought Dischord had perhaps sold them the right to use the image, so I was pretty unhappy.  Of course, Copyright law is in place in part to prevent just such misunderstandings.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://www.thetalentshow.org/2005/06/27/non-threatening/comment-page-1/#comment-7053</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Jun 2005 21:42:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetalentshow.org/wp/?p=1840#comment-7053</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m a big supporter of copyleft and I believe the line is drawn as soon as you start taking something for commercial purposes.  If I wanted to use the logo in a non commercial way, I should be able to.  However, I shouldn&#039;t be able to take their work and make money of it without contributing back.  If Nike won&#039;t let me make money of the swoosh, they can&#039;t make money off this.  Hell, Nike won&#039;t let me use the swoosh for something non commercial.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m a big supporter of copyleft and I believe the line is drawn as soon as you start taking something for commercial purposes.  If I wanted to use the logo in a non commercial way, I should be able to.  However, I shouldn&#8217;t be able to take their work and make money of it without contributing back.  If Nike won&#8217;t let me make money of the swoosh, they can&#8217;t make money off this.  Hell, Nike won&#8217;t let me use the swoosh for something non commercial.</p>
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		<title>By: sgo</title>
		<link>http://www.thetalentshow.org/2005/06/27/non-threatening/comment-page-1/#comment-7052</link>
		<dc:creator>sgo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Jun 2005 16:57:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetalentshow.org/wp/?p=1840#comment-7052</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;pay tribute to a copyrighted image?&lt;/i&gt;
 or pay homage to...

the key word is &quot;pay&quot;

It doesn&#039;t matter who is the &quot;big guy&quot; or the &quot;little guy&quot; the matters are only &quot;who owns it&quot; and &quot;who took it without permission&quot; and what &quot;it&quot; is. 

Dischord owns it.
Nike took it.
 and &quot;it&quot; is, in this case, the composition of the image not the image itself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>pay tribute to a copyrighted image?</i><br />
 or pay homage to&#8230;</p>
<p>the key word is &#8220;pay&#8221;</p>
<p>It doesn&#8217;t matter who is the &#8220;big guy&#8221; or the &#8220;little guy&#8221; the matters are only &#8220;who owns it&#8221; and &#8220;who took it without permission&#8221; and what &#8220;it&#8221; is. </p>
<p>Dischord owns it.<br />
Nike took it.<br />
 and &#8220;it&#8221; is, in this case, the composition of the image not the image itself.</p>
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