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	<title>Comments on: Re-Framing O&#8217;Connor</title>
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		<title>By: Mr Furious</title>
		<link>http://www.thetalentshow.org/2005/07/01/re-framing-oconnor/comment-page-1/#comment-7223</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr Furious</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jul 2005 19:28:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetalentshow.org/wp/?p=1855#comment-7223</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re right on Greg. &quot;Moderate&quot; it is!
I accidentally (subconciously) did exactly as you said in &lt;a href=&quot;http://misterfurious.blogspot.com/2005/07/court-unblemished-thoughts-on-oconnor.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;my post about O&#039;Connor&lt;/a&gt;, repeatedly referring to her as moderate. Perhaps only because with the goalposts where they are, she really&lt;i&gt; is&lt;/i&gt; moderate compared to Thomas, Scalia and especially her eventual replacement.

Oh, and Drum has been steadily slipping for weeks now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re right on Greg. &#8220;Moderate&#8221; it is!<br />
I accidentally (subconciously) did exactly as you said in <a href="http://misterfurious.blogspot.com/2005/07/court-unblemished-thoughts-on-oconnor.html" rel="nofollow">my post about O&#8217;Connor</a>, repeatedly referring to her as moderate. Perhaps only because with the goalposts where they are, she really<i> is</i> moderate compared to Thomas, Scalia and especially her eventual replacement.</p>
<p>Oh, and Drum has been steadily slipping for weeks now.</p>
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		<title>By: mrvetinari</title>
		<link>http://www.thetalentshow.org/2005/07/01/re-framing-oconnor/comment-page-1/#comment-7222</link>
		<dc:creator>mrvetinari</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Jul 2005 05:36:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetalentshow.org/wp/?p=1855#comment-7222</guid>
		<description>No amount of framing will change who Team Moron is going to nominate.  Conservative idealogy will take a backseat to complete unquestioning loyalty to the house of Bush (see Anton Scalia for an example of this)

We knew it was only a matter of time before the combination of life support and black magic that keeps most of the Justices alive failed and Team Moron got a chance to appoint an accomplice in their various criminal enterprises.  Alberto Ganzoles (who I do not expect to be nominated) is an example of expanding Team Moron&#039;s criminal ring, any Supreme Court nominee will be an example  of this trend.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No amount of framing will change who Team Moron is going to nominate.  Conservative idealogy will take a backseat to complete unquestioning loyalty to the house of Bush (see Anton Scalia for an example of this)</p>
<p>We knew it was only a matter of time before the combination of life support and black magic that keeps most of the Justices alive failed and Team Moron got a chance to appoint an accomplice in their various criminal enterprises.  Alberto Ganzoles (who I do not expect to be nominated) is an example of expanding Team Moron&#8217;s criminal ring, any Supreme Court nominee will be an example  of this trend.</p>
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		<title>By: Captain Slack</title>
		<link>http://www.thetalentshow.org/2005/07/01/re-framing-oconnor/comment-page-1/#comment-7221</link>
		<dc:creator>Captain Slack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Jul 2005 16:27:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetalentshow.org/wp/?p=1855#comment-7221</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Unrelated to the nomination process, to try to halt the rightward drift of the idea of &quot;center&quot; in this country.&lt;/i&gt;

If we wanted to halt that shit, we needed to start work in 1971. Google on &quot;Powell Memorandum&quot; to find out why.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Unrelated to the nomination process, to try to halt the rightward drift of the idea of &#8220;center&#8221; in this country.</i></p>
<p>If we wanted to halt that shit, we needed to start work in 1971. Google on &#8220;Powell Memorandum&#8221; to find out why.</p>
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		<title>By: Royko</title>
		<link>http://www.thetalentshow.org/2005/07/01/re-framing-oconnor/comment-page-1/#comment-7220</link>
		<dc:creator>Royko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Jul 2005 09:21:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetalentshow.org/wp/?p=1855#comment-7220</guid>
		<description>I agree: I think Kevin has it wrong.  (Actually, I think Kevin&#039;s been on a Wrong Streak most of this week.)

If, as Kevin says, people think a conservative president should be able to replace a moderate justice with a conservative, why the heck wouldn&#039;t they think he should be able to replace a moderate conservative with a slightly more conservative justice?  In any event, I think the distinction would be lost on a lot of people.

I suppose, to play devil&#039;s advocate, one could argue calling her a conservative for two reasons:

1) To frame the image that Democrats are okay with conservative justices, just not REACTIONARY conservative justices.  I&#039;m dubious that this would work.

2) Unrelated to the nomination process, to try to halt the rightward drift of the idea of &quot;center&quot; in this country.  I doubt this one instance would help that much, and I think the nomination is more pressing at the moment than more abstract framing issues.

Those relatively minor issues aside, I think framing her as a moderate is the best call under the circumstances.  Not that I think it&#039;ll do much good either way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree: I think Kevin has it wrong.  (Actually, I think Kevin&#8217;s been on a Wrong Streak most of this week.)</p>
<p>If, as Kevin says, people think a conservative president should be able to replace a moderate justice with a conservative, why the heck wouldn&#8217;t they think he should be able to replace a moderate conservative with a slightly more conservative justice?  In any event, I think the distinction would be lost on a lot of people.</p>
<p>I suppose, to play devil&#8217;s advocate, one could argue calling her a conservative for two reasons:</p>
<p>1) To frame the image that Democrats are okay with conservative justices, just not REACTIONARY conservative justices.  I&#8217;m dubious that this would work.</p>
<p>2) Unrelated to the nomination process, to try to halt the rightward drift of the idea of &#8220;center&#8221; in this country.  I doubt this one instance would help that much, and I think the nomination is more pressing at the moment than more abstract framing issues.</p>
<p>Those relatively minor issues aside, I think framing her as a moderate is the best call under the circumstances.  Not that I think it&#8217;ll do much good either way.</p>
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		<title>By: robin</title>
		<link>http://www.thetalentshow.org/2005/07/01/re-framing-oconnor/comment-page-1/#comment-7219</link>
		<dc:creator>robin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Jul 2005 03:32:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetalentshow.org/wp/?p=1855#comment-7219</guid>
		<description>&quot;It&#039;s good, sound strategy in an era of profoundly cynical fucking politicking.&quot; It is a thoughtful strategy, I guess, but I can&#039;t see it making any difference as W sits down to go over his short list, or as the approval process begins. 

And if it doesn&#039;t make a difference in the nomination itself, then is reframing O Connor&#039;s record as that of a moderate (or in Kevin&#039;s words &quot;conceding a battle we shouldn&#039;t&quot;) worth possibly a few extra votes next year? 

I&#039;m not really sure, but I know that I wouldn&#039;t say Mr. Drum is &quot;dead fucking wrong&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;It&#8217;s good, sound strategy in an era of profoundly cynical fucking politicking.&#8221; It is a thoughtful strategy, I guess, but I can&#8217;t see it making any difference as W sits down to go over his short list, or as the approval process begins. </p>
<p>And if it doesn&#8217;t make a difference in the nomination itself, then is reframing O Connor&#8217;s record as that of a moderate (or in Kevin&#8217;s words &#8220;conceding a battle we shouldn&#8217;t&#8221;) worth possibly a few extra votes next year? </p>
<p>I&#8217;m not really sure, but I know that I wouldn&#8217;t say Mr. Drum is &#8220;dead fucking wrong&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Unstable Isotope</title>
		<link>http://www.thetalentshow.org/2005/07/01/re-framing-oconnor/comment-page-1/#comment-7218</link>
		<dc:creator>Unstable Isotope</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Jul 2005 02:29:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetalentshow.org/wp/?p=1855#comment-7218</guid>
		<description>Amen!  The kooky cons will fall right into this too because they want a Thomas-style conservative nominated.  They&#039;ll call O&#039;Connor moderate or even the dreaded &quot;liberal.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amen!  The kooky cons will fall right into this too because they want a Thomas-style conservative nominated.  They&#8217;ll call O&#8217;Connor moderate or even the dreaded &#8220;liberal.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Jason</title>
		<link>http://www.thetalentshow.org/2005/07/01/re-framing-oconnor/comment-page-1/#comment-7217</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jul 2005 23:57:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetalentshow.org/wp/?p=1855#comment-7217</guid>
		<description>Very good point. My sense is that most people are content with the current balance on the Supreme Court and don&#039;t want it to shift too far in one direction or another. That would make people&#039;s perception of O&#039;Connor&#039;s place on the ideological spectrum quite important.

On the other hand, how many people have more than a passing familiarity with O&#039;Connor? 10, 15% My sense is that most people view the court as moderate and will react to Bush&#039;s nominee based on how far he or she is from the center rather than how far he or she is from O&#039;Connor.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very good point. My sense is that most people are content with the current balance on the Supreme Court and don&#8217;t want it to shift too far in one direction or another. That would make people&#8217;s perception of O&#8217;Connor&#8217;s place on the ideological spectrum quite important.</p>
<p>On the other hand, how many people have more than a passing familiarity with O&#8217;Connor? 10, 15% My sense is that most people view the court as moderate and will react to Bush&#8217;s nominee based on how far he or she is from the center rather than how far he or she is from O&#8217;Connor.</p>
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		<title>By: dr</title>
		<link>http://www.thetalentshow.org/2005/07/01/re-framing-oconnor/comment-page-1/#comment-7216</link>
		<dc:creator>dr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jul 2005 23:45:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetalentshow.org/wp/?p=1855#comment-7216</guid>
		<description>You are &lt;i&gt;exactly&lt;/i&gt; right, Greg. 

Here&#039;s the rub: 

Kevin is &lt;i&gt;technically&lt;/i&gt; correct, but he is &lt;i&gt;politically&lt;/i&gt; wrong. 

Dead fucking wrong.

It doesn&#039;t make two shits of difference in the public&#039;s mind that O&#039;Connor isn&#039;t a moderate but a conservative, b/c the public won&#039;t follow her career closely enough to know the difference anyway.

The public &lt;i&gt;perception&lt;/i&gt; will be created right now, in real time, based upon what the fake conservatives and the liberals say about her. It&#039;s like lionizing the dead to get a seat at the table for the disbursement of the will.

In the new &quot;no-rules, no-referees&quot; America that Eric Alterman cited the other day (in a piece about Karl Rove), Dean and Reid are preemptively defining O&#039;Connor in a manner more acceptable to liberals in order to strike the best bargain we can from an inferior bargaining position.

It&#039;s good, sound strategy in an era of profoundly cynical fucking politicking. 

Again, as Alterman said: &quot;There&#039;s a lesson for liberals in all this: American politics has become a game with no rules and no referee. Play by the old rules -- fairness, honesty, good faith -- and face political extinction.&quot; 

What&#039;s the point in showing strict fidelity to O&#039;Connor&#039;s record? It reminds me of Groucho&#039;s famous line: &quot;We&#039;re fighting for this woman&#039;s honor, b/c Lord knows, she never did.&quot; 

And she&#039;s history anyway. 

So shape her tenure in a way that serves liberals as best it can and not the fake conservatives.

Doing what Kevin says will just allow Bushco to define whatever reactionary dogmatic nitwit they gin up as &quot;conservative&quot; and thereby grease the skids to confirmation.

dr</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You are <i>exactly</i> right, Greg. </p>
<p>Here&#8217;s the rub: </p>
<p>Kevin is <i>technically</i> correct, but he is <i>politically</i> wrong. </p>
<p>Dead fucking wrong.</p>
<p>It doesn&#8217;t make two shits of difference in the public&#8217;s mind that O&#8217;Connor isn&#8217;t a moderate but a conservative, b/c the public won&#8217;t follow her career closely enough to know the difference anyway.</p>
<p>The public <i>perception</i> will be created right now, in real time, based upon what the fake conservatives and the liberals say about her. It&#8217;s like lionizing the dead to get a seat at the table for the disbursement of the will.</p>
<p>In the new &#8220;no-rules, no-referees&#8221; America that Eric Alterman cited the other day (in a piece about Karl Rove), Dean and Reid are preemptively defining O&#8217;Connor in a manner more acceptable to liberals in order to strike the best bargain we can from an inferior bargaining position.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s good, sound strategy in an era of profoundly cynical fucking politicking. </p>
<p>Again, as Alterman said: &#8220;There&#8217;s a lesson for liberals in all this: American politics has become a game with no rules and no referee. Play by the old rules &#8212; fairness, honesty, good faith &#8212; and face political extinction.&#8221; </p>
<p>What&#8217;s the point in showing strict fidelity to O&#8217;Connor&#8217;s record? It reminds me of Groucho&#8217;s famous line: &#8220;We&#8217;re fighting for this woman&#8217;s honor, b/c Lord knows, she never did.&#8221; </p>
<p>And she&#8217;s history anyway. </p>
<p>So shape her tenure in a way that serves liberals as best it can and not the fake conservatives.</p>
<p>Doing what Kevin says will just allow Bushco to define whatever reactionary dogmatic nitwit they gin up as &#8220;conservative&#8221; and thereby grease the skids to confirmation.</p>
<p>dr</p>
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		<title>By: somegirl</title>
		<link>http://www.thetalentshow.org/2005/07/01/re-framing-oconnor/comment-page-1/#comment-7215</link>
		<dc:creator>somegirl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jul 2005 21:58:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetalentshow.org/wp/?p=1855#comment-7215</guid>
		<description>how &#039;bout replace a &lt;i&gt;moderate conservative&lt;/i&gt; justice with a &lt;i&gt;conservative extremist&lt;/i&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>how &#8217;bout replace a <i>moderate conservative</i> justice with a <i>conservative extremist</i>.</p>
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		<title>By: Political Animal</title>
		<link>http://www.thetalentshow.org/2005/07/01/re-framing-oconnor/comment-page-1/#comment-7224</link>
		<dc:creator>Political Animal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jul 2005 19:46:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetalentshow.org/wp/?p=1855#comment-7224</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Framing O&#039;Connor&lt;/strong&gt;

FRAMING O&#039;CONNOR....I can&#039;t help but think that leading Democrats are setting the bar too low in their statements about Sandra Day O&#039;Connor&#039;s retirement. Here&#039;s Howard Dean:Justice O&#039;Connor...has been a voice of moderation whose career was marked by a ...
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Framing O&#8217;Connor</strong></p>
<p>FRAMING O&#8217;CONNOR&#8230;.I can&#8217;t help but think that leading Democrats are setting the bar too low in their statements about Sandra Day O&#8217;Connor&#8217;s retirement. Here&#8217;s Howard Dean:Justice O&#8217;Connor&#8230;has been a voice of moderation whose career was marked by a &#8230;</p>
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