Bush Caught In A Lie?
Ummm….I told you so. Two weeks ago when everyone was buzzing about The National Journal report that Rove lied to George Bush, I wrote :
I don’t doubt for a second that Murray Waas’ sources are correct about what the grand jury has been told, but let’s be serious here. What’s the more likely scenario? Karl Rove lying to the Patrick Fitzgerald or George W. Bush?
And it turns out, Rove didn’t lie to Bush after all :
Other sources confirmed, however, that Bush was initially furious with Rove in 2003 when his deputy chief of staff conceded he had talked to the press about the Plame leak.Bush has always known that Rove often talks with reporters anonymously and he generally approved of such contacts, one source said.
. . .
A second well-placed source said some recently published reports implying Rove had deceived Bush about his involvement in the Wilson counterattack were incorrect and were leaked by White House aides trying to protect the President.“Bush did not feel misled so much by Karl and others as believing that they handled it in a ham-handed and bush-league way,” the source said.
But here’s something to chew on. What if both stories are correct? On the surface, they seem contradictory, but let’s look at that National Journal piece again (emphasis added) :
White House Deputy Chief of Staff Karl Rove personally assured President Bush in the early fall of 2003 that he had not disclosed to anyone in the press that Valerie Plame, the wife of an administration critic, was a CIA employee, according to legal sources with firsthand knowledge of the accounts that both Rove and Bush independently provided to federal prosecutors.
Isn’t it equally plausible that both of these stories tell different sides of the same story? Let’s assume for a moment that Murray Waas’ sources didn’t lie to him about what Bush and Rove told Fitzgerald. If that’s the case and today’s story is also true, then we’ve got a President who’s in “cover your ass” mode. Regardless of whether or not the President was under oath, lying to federal prosecutors seems like a pretty clear case of obstruction of justice.
Of course, proving the President’s involvement is another matter entirely. Can Fitzgerald prove that the President lied? If the rumors are correct that someone in the Administration has “flipped”, then there’s a good chance that the President’s “displeasure” towards Rove was well known within the White House. After all, this is a President who wears his heart on his sleeve getting pissed at his most trusted advisor over an issue that everyone was talking about. This wouldn’t just get the rumor mill buzzing, but would likely lead to some communications within the White House about the President wanting everyone to get their shit together. Remember, the big news out of today’s scoops isn’t just when the President found out but his anger that his team “did a clumsy job”. A single saved email along these lines and some fibbing by the President about what he knew and when he knew it could be all the rope Fitzgerald needs to hang Bush out to dry.
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Call me a crazy dreamer . . .
Comment by Crazy dreamer — October 19, 2005 @ 11:47 am
You’re a crazy dreamer, you are!
Comment by Meshugganah Ike — October 19, 2005 @ 11:50 am
..But I’m not the only one….
Comment by Davis X. Machina — October 19, 2005 @ 11:59 am
Please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please… let Bush go to jail.
Comment by johnny6644 — October 19, 2005 @ 12:00 pm
PISS
Pre-Indictment Stress Syndrome is about to do me in!
Comment by simplexity — October 19, 2005 @ 12:01 pm
Bush wasn’t under oath when he talked to Fitzpatrick, so he won’t face perjury charges at least.
Comment by Nathan Rudy — October 19, 2005 @ 12:02 pm
I’m with you, you crazy dreamer you! Checkmate, it is.
Comment by cotterperson — October 19, 2005 @ 12:03 pm
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Comment by Ken — October 19, 2005 @ 12:04 pm
That is if he actually did lie to Friz when Cheney and him sat down for their little “talk.”
Comment by Rook — October 19, 2005 @ 12:04 pm
But Bush doesn’t have a heart.
Comment by phil — October 19, 2005 @ 12:12 pm
Be nice if Bush had one of those 22 indictments.
Comment by gas head — October 19, 2005 @ 12:15 pm
I’m going to have sex with you all.
Comment by sexwithyoucall — October 19, 2005 @ 12:15 pm
Bush wasn’t under oath when he talked to Fitzpatrick, so he won’t face perjury charges at least.
posted by: Nathan Rudy at October 19, 2005 12:02 PM
Nope, but obstruction of justice is a distinct possiblility!
Comment by bartcopfan — October 19, 2005 @ 12:19 pm
Myths About PlameGate
Think Progress has compiled a handy list of right-wing myths about the Valerie Plame Leaks investigation – and the facts that show they are myths. The National Journal’s Hotline has a list of everyone who has testified in Plamegate or…
Trackback by TalkLeft: The Politics of Crime — October 19, 2005 @ 12:22 pm
Let’s not forget that Nixon was named an “unindicted co-conspirator” in Watergate.
In my opinion, this is the LEAST that Bush should get away with.
Does anyone doubt that he knew about this from the start?
Comment by marty — October 19, 2005 @ 12:23 pm
It’s a crime to lie to a federal law enforcement officer investigating a possible crime, even if you’re not under oath. It’s obstruction of justice, which is how they got the Nixon gang. And it could also lead to a conspiracy charge.
Comment by Ron Thompson — October 19, 2005 @ 12:23 pm
Martha wasn’t under oath when she lied to investigators. That’s because lying under oath isn’t a requirement, just that you lied.
Comment by djangone — October 19, 2005 @ 12:26 pm
Stop it already and wait. All this speculation and innuendo could amount to nada. I remember when a lot of us were confident that Bush would be out of a job last November. Ugh, did that stink.
So please, wait.
Comment by DUDACKATTACK!!! — October 19, 2005 @ 12:29 pm
Naw, I’ve been left at the alter too many times to have high hopes now.
When I see the Mighty Frogmarch from Rove, Libby, Cheney, or Bush – then and only then will I have any faith in the system.
These weasels have decks of cards up their sleeves, there is always a way out.
Our only hope, slim as it is, is to take back Congress, hold hearings and impeach the bastard.
Comment by David Aquarius — October 19, 2005 @ 12:29 pm
Well, when it finally happens I just hope Crooks & Liars posts the videio of the frogmarching, card-sharping weasels!
Comment by MaryCh — October 19, 2005 @ 12:37 pm
Like the poor child at Christmas who hopes beyond hope that this year will be different than all the rest, I wait.
Comment by nashvegasdawg — October 19, 2005 @ 12:46 pm
Correct me if I’m wrong, but if Bush did commit an
offense, then I think he can’t be indicted while in
office – instead the procedure would be that the
evidence would be gathered and passed to Congress
for possible impeachment or censure.
At that point Bush’s credibility and political
capital would be negative, and the best move would
be to resign to Crawford quickly and quietly in
return for a pardon (the Nixon/Ford option). But
Bush is dumb enough not to realize that, so it’s
more likely to be ugly.
The tricky question is, where can you find a
senior scandal-free Republican to take over ?
Comment by Richard Cownie — October 19, 2005 @ 12:54 pm
I know we’re all anxious for the indictments to come, but while we’re waiting, we can enjoy the entertaining vision of DeLay’s mugshot:
http://tinyurl.com/9y9ht
Go get ‘em Fritzie!
Comment by Nittacci — October 19, 2005 @ 12:55 pm
It’s not about the sex, it’s about the l y i n g.
Comment by melior in France — October 19, 2005 @ 12:57 pm
that is orgasmic news! OMG! this is huge! let the mother f*****s swing! oh yes, oh yes, oooooohhhhh yeeeeeeeessssssssssss!!!!
Comment by hotfroggy — October 19, 2005 @ 12:58 pm
Just heard a blurb with Tweety Mathews saying to be sure to watch tonight because in the first 10 minutes he would have new stuff on what Bush knew and when he knew it. Tweets looked ill. Or iller than usual.
My guess is, he is reading your blog and thought he might repeat it and call it his own.
Is it too early to start speculating as to who will be president a year from now.
Santorum?
That’s the problem with the “new” right, they have much, much bigger freaks down on the farm.
Comment by pahoo — October 19, 2005 @ 1:05 pm
Impeach the fucker! How can the country endure 3 more years of this clown?
Send email, call, write letters to your House reps urging them to get the impeachment ball rolling. If ever there was an asshat of a prez deserving of impeachment, W is it. Hell, at least Nixon did some good in his tenure, like the Clean Water Act and thawing relations with China. What the fuck has this asshat ever done while in office that could be judged decades from now as a success? The silence is deafening…..
Comment by Dave — October 19, 2005 @ 1:08 pm
like I said when memogate started-
“a snowball rolling downhill”–towards the Whitehouse—oh yes where would the “old” Downing street memo fit into this? if at all?
just wondering??
Comment by justwondering — October 19, 2005 @ 1:11 pm
Is Dick Cheney dead yet?
Comment by Corey — October 19, 2005 @ 1:28 pm
I agree with the calls for patience and reason right now, although it’s really ‘hard work’ not to get all orgasmic about it like hotfroggy.
Let’s just be sure we don’t get Pujoled, ok?
Comment by jed — October 19, 2005 @ 1:29 pm
DIME TIME FOR DICK
DIME TIME FOR DICK continues. Word drops another aid is dropping a dime on Cheney in the PlameOut investigation [story] Maybe Andy Card will have a meeting on message discipline, if everybody isn’t out trying to cut a deal.
Trackback by The Heretik — October 19, 2005 @ 1:30 pm
Wow, Michael Moore sure is fat this week.
Comment by mdhåtter — October 19, 2005 @ 1:33 pm
ohhhhhhh, come on jed, let it all out! it’s been a long haul to get these crooked goatmen! let’s let out a great big howwwwwwddddddddyyyyyy! when tom get his picture taken! i want a tee shirt of his mug shot! sooo coooooool!!!
Comment by hotfroggy — October 19, 2005 @ 1:46 pm
Well, here’s my scenario for the coming months:
Dick Cheney is about to “resign” for “health reasons.”
Bush will then pardon Tom DeLay, who will mount a successful campaign to replace Hastert as House majority leader.
Bush will stall picking a replacement for Vice President.
Then, when the bombs really start bursting, the American people will be faced with a choice of whom they want to be president: W or Tom DeLay.
Won’t that be entertaining.
Comment by Carl Stensel — October 19, 2005 @ 1:47 pm
Martha Stewart was convicted of lying to investigators under this:
18 USC 1001.
(a) Except as otherwise provided in this section, whoever, in any matter within the jurisdiction of the executive, legislative, or judicial branch of the Government of the United States, knowingly and willfully —
(1) falsifies, conceals, or covers up by any trick, scheme, or device a material fact;
(2) makes any materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent statement or representation; or
(3) makes or uses any false writing or document knowing the same to contain any materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent statement or entry;
shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.
Comment by moe99 — October 19, 2005 @ 1:51 pm
Hee hee hee hee, hee hee hee hee.
Comment by Nominal Chtulu — October 19, 2005 @ 1:54 pm
“Pre-Indictment Stress Syndrome is about to do me in!”
It’s better than post-pardon depression.
Comment by Ken — October 19, 2005 @ 1:57 pm
Who would these “legal sources” be who are leaking to the National Journal what Bush told Fitz and what Rove told Fitz. I can certainly believe Rove’s lawyer putting out their story, but as far as I know, Bush’s lawyer hasn’t said much of anything. Can we get some idea of the provenance of these tidbits?
Comment by Just Wondering — October 19, 2005 @ 2:00 pm
which republican congressmen would defy party line? can they be isolated?
Comment by jah jah jah jah jah — October 19, 2005 @ 2:05 pm
Bush’s “did a clumsy job” statement bothers me greatly. If this is in fact Bush’s stated position on the subject, how does this attitude not expose him to conspiracy charges? Assenting to the behavior while criticizing the way in which it was carried out is gross dereliction of duty. Another example of the President’s passiveness in the face of a brewing conspiracy, which makes him an accessory at the very least.
Comment by mrblifil — October 19, 2005 @ 2:08 pm
Coming to a Post Office near you:
“America’s Most Wanted Republicans.”
Comment by AvengingAngel — October 19, 2005 @ 2:18 pm
This certainly is plausible. The way I see it Bush may have been really upset with Rove but Rove assured him that the secret was safe and no one would ever find out because the press “really knows how to keep their sources secret”.
Comment by Galindo — October 19, 2005 @ 2:47 pm
I am no lawyer, but I believe they can not indict a sitting president. The indictment would remain sealed until he was out of office. I don’t know about the VP either, but I just saw something weird that the House recessed early today and headed to the White House for a summit with Bush, supposedly about the budget, Harry Miers, etc…
Comment by bushdrools — October 19, 2005 @ 2:52 pm
Complicated matters in PlameGate
After a morning of finishing a paper on Canadian political policies towards health care and language issues, and then class in the afternoon, its time to post to get my mind off of school.
Things with the CIA leak investigation have gotten monstrousl…
Trackback by Political Forecast — October 19, 2005 @ 3:02 pm
“handled it in a ham-handed and bush-league way”
Bush-league indeed.
Comment by Kamachanda — October 19, 2005 @ 3:27 pm
Bush needs to be impeached, charged with treason and if found guilty… executed in Texas.
Comment by Cowicide — October 19, 2005 @ 3:48 pm
Does anyone know if the grand jury video records their proceedings?
It would be awesome to see all of the lying liars caught on tape.
Comment by geraldo — October 19, 2005 @ 4:02 pm
Let’s send Bush back to Crwford where he can drink himself into an fatal coma. Barbara what do you think of your little bitch now. Don’t trouble your beautiful mind. WE will take care of him for good.
Comment by chad — October 19, 2005 @ 4:10 pm
thanks for this post.
The emperor has no clothes!!
Comment by LP — October 19, 2005 @ 4:10 pm
This is amazing.
Any possiblilty that Fitzgerald can submit his idictments related to the Plame affair… and then announce that he is going to pursue other possible crimes or instances of perjury that were discovered during his investigation?
http://darted.blogspot.com
-Monk
Comment by Monk — October 19, 2005 @ 4:11 pm
No, grand Jury proceeding are always secret and never recorded. There are transcripts, for “impeachment” purposes (to use in cross-examination when giving testimony at trial that may differ from the grand jury statements, but don’t hold your breath.
Comment by Howard — October 19, 2005 @ 4:40 pm
When is it OK for a White House offical to disclose CIA assets during a time of war? NEVER!
This is treason pure and simple. The mere fact that Bush did not immediately terminate someone the instant he found out they were involved makes him a piece of dog shit.
This agent was involved in WMD intelligence during a time of war when our biggest threat was … WMDs.
And not only was she a Noc (Non-offical cover … a deep cover operative) but her entire network and the networks of everyone at her cover company became worthless the moment these traitors opened their mouths.
He should be impeached just for knowing them.
Comment by TekBoss — October 19, 2005 @ 5:00 pm
My thoughts:
The statements in the Standard relate to what Bush and Rove did . . . PERSONALLY.
Specifically, “HE [i.e., ROVE PERSONALLY] had not disclosed to anyone in the press that Valerie Plame, the wife of an administration critic, was a CIA employee”.
Who did disclose it, and at the instruction of whom? Rove? Bush? The whole team? There is no “I” in the word team, after all. . .
I begin to feel as if this is going to turn into a debate over what “disclosed” means. If I instruct or “cause” someone to reveal the name, I haven’t actually disclosed anything – or have I? Brings to mind “sexual relations,” don’t you think?
Comment by Idaholawyer — October 19, 2005 @ 5:11 pm
Oh please. Let’s stop dreaming people. If anyone in the White House thought the Prez was in any trouble, all hell would be breaking loose.
What do people think Fitzgerald is? Do you really think he wants to be known as the gunslinger that got a President?
He has to live in the world later. Ain’t gonna happen.
Comment by Hobson — October 19, 2005 @ 5:14 pm
DOG AND PONY SHOW for the American public. Bush is far more guilty. 911 inside job, rigged elections, lies on WMD, patriot act meant to strip americans of their leagal rights. Once the Dems are elected back in, it will be the same old shit different party name.
Comment by Mike — October 19, 2005 @ 5:17 pm
Oh by the way Bush is a coke addict watch hi jaw move back in forth when he talks.
Comment by Mike — October 19, 2005 @ 5:19 pm
Could this be bigger than all of us thought?
Who’s gonna dress as Bush in handcuffs for Halloween?
Yeah, that’s far fetched but Rove and Libby at the LEAST
are about to be ruined. Cheney, Condi, Hadley, Card, Fleischer, Miller and the rest y’all..
Happy Halloween!
May it be.
Comment by Patient But Thirsty — October 19, 2005 @ 5:23 pm
“Do you really think he [Fitzgerald] wants to be known as the gunslinger that got a President?”
F**k’n ay! That’s one mighty (ugly but) impressive trophy to hang over the mantle.
Comment by BroD — October 19, 2005 @ 5:30 pm
It COULD be a lot bigger than we all thought, but will it?
This prosecutor, unlike Starr, has leaked little to nothing..we are all clueless, all of this is pure speculation.
I don’t mean to rain on the current parade, but I am trying to just say cool the jets until we hear some hardcore facts…
Comment by Bryan — October 19, 2005 @ 6:08 pm
I heard that there was a big truck that pulled up to the gates of the White House today. The Secret Service took one look at the contents and declared, “Why this is just what we ordered! Georgeie is going to be soooo proud of us.” So they let the truck enter the hallowed grounds. Later in the evening Laura said to George, why George, just what is that wonderful smell. And George said, well it seems like my friends down in Crawford sent me a chicken dinner. So Georgie and Laura went down to the East Room for what they thought would be a feast. When they entered the room they were over-whelmed by the smell. There was chicken s**t everywhere and the room was filled with chickens. Well old Carl was also there because he thought he smelled a friend in the crowd. Then Georgie’s good old boy Harry Meirs came in and explained, why Georgie, dear, you are the greatest, you are a genus, you make the Earth stand still; why Georgie your chickens finally came home to roost!!
Comment by Phil — October 19, 2005 @ 6:26 pm
We get first dibs on GWB. War crimes, you know.
Comment by the hague — October 19, 2005 @ 6:38 pm
Hey, you dumbies who are hoping Bush gets indicted. He won’t. He’s got sovereign immunity.Clinton got sued for something he allegedly did before he was prez.Be cool, stay in skule.
Comment by nipplechowder — October 19, 2005 @ 6:38 pm
Am I the only one who doubts this story about Bush being angry with Rove over the Plame affair two years ago? To believe this, one must think 1)that Bush is actually in control of Rove, 2) knew what was going on under his nose, and 3) smart and ethical enough to be angry about the ramifications of leaking Plame’s name. NOT! More likely, this is a spin… someone in the WH is seeking to diffuse the fallout on Bush if Rove is indicted. Think about it.
Comment by carol — October 19, 2005 @ 6:55 pm
Yes, I know. My last post was rather crude! YEA ME! OK, SHEEPUL, we now need to wake up. Our Rip Van Winkle moment is over! Vindication! Now be nice to our poor mis-guided friends. They are hurting right now because they have finally realized that they have been screwed. Think a**l!
So be nice and just let them work through this difficult time. Lord knows we left of left people have been sliced and diced more ways than Carter has pills. OK, you have to be at least born before 1960 to get the last!
Comment by Phil — October 19, 2005 @ 6:56 pm
This is what President Bush had to say about upholding the honor and dignity of his office on October 7, 2003:
“I don’t know if we’re going to find out the senior administration official. Now, this is a large administration, and there’s a lot of senior officials. I don’t have any idea. I’d like to. I want to know the truth. That’s why I’ve instructed this staff of mine to cooperate fully with the investigators — full disclosure, everything we know the investigators will find out.”
Comment by AvengingAngel — October 19, 2005 @ 8:22 pm
the president would have to know how to send an email for an email to be saved… just sayin’
Comment by evan — October 19, 2005 @ 9:51 pm
Good luck. W. stole the 2000 election due to the corruption of a partisan Supreme Court. At least two of the Supreme Court justices, Thomas and Scalia, should have recused themselves due to a conflict of interest. The law clearly stipulates that judges must recuse themselves from cases in with they, or their family members, or personal friends may have an interest. Scalia’s son worked at the law firm representing Bush, and Thomas’ wife was working at the Heritage Foundation, vetting candidates for jobs in a Bush administration. They should have been impeached, yet the trangression is overlooked to this day. The man Americans elected as their President, Al Gore, never occupied the office. It has been usurped, and this is where it has brought you.
For years, I wrote fruitless letters to the editor of American newspapers such as the NY Times, Wash Post, even the Miami Herald, to say that global climate change represented a far greater threat to the US then bin Laden or Saddam Hussein could ever hope to be, but I don’t think any of those letters were ever published.
With Wilma, the most power hurricane ever recorded, threatening South Florida, how does the threat Iraq posed compare to Wilma?
Comment by viewfromcanada — October 19, 2005 @ 10:07 pm
I’d hafta CONVEY AGREEMENT with johnny6644’s post, which pretty-mucg sums this issue up nicely..please allow me to reitierate his words of wisdon: PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, ETC…LET BUSH GO TO JAIL.
Comment by IPISSONBUSH — October 20, 2005 @ 12:47 am
“Behind that slow pokey exterior lies the mind of a frighteningly intelligent being.”
Comment by Benny — October 20, 2005 @ 2:51 am
I noticed one commenter stated Bush and Cheney were interviewed together by Fitzgerald.
Is that correct? Because I thought that it was the 911 commission where Bush was Cheney’s hand toy.
And, if Bush was interviewed by Fitzgerald, alone, Bush’s goose is cooked. He’s literally too stupid not to incriminate himself. Literally.
Comment by farang — October 20, 2005 @ 5:35 am
Regardless if he was under oath or not. The president has lied under numerous circumstances (Weapons of Mass Destruction, Downing street memo, Valerie Plame, Yellow cake, uranium from niger, stockpiles, outdated photos presented to the U.N., mobile labs, etc. When Bill had his Lewinsky, every republican in the house of representatives talked feverishly how an elected official takes an oath and that they are bound by it. Where are they now? We have a president who has raped our economy. We have a president who has committed murder sending our troops to kill based on a lie and inturn have 2000 US servicemen deaths. We have a President who has for some reason haven’t been impeached! The main problem is America is built on a systematic system where as if you are college educated then you are heard, but contrare if you only have a high school education or less, you are not deemed worthy to voice your opinion. Many of us educated or not around the world knew early on that the case for war was thin but thanks to our sorry ass media outlets the educated ones were duped. One last parting shot! Polls in my opinion are only done in suburban neighborhoods and it is time that media outlets start interviewing your ordinary Joe instead of someone who has an expanded vocabulary. In plain english, we saw this bullshit coming before shit hit the fan!
Comment by Ian — October 20, 2005 @ 6:59 am
Let’s not forget that Daddy Bush fired Turd Blossom during his abbrevaited reign, for (gasp) being dishonest.
Heh.
What goes around comes around.
Comment by Carol — October 20, 2005 @ 9:23 am
Why is anyone surprised about Bush lying? I mean look at the extended run up to the illegal and immoral war on Iraq, and all the contrived ‘intelligence’ they used for justification. Why would lying about Rove’s shenanigans be any harder to believe?
Bill Clinton got a blowjob, indeed, but we’re all getting one now, and 2000 American military and uncounted Iraqi civilians and ‘military’ didn’t die when President Bill got his….
Comment by Twelvestring — October 20, 2005 @ 10:42 am
If he was so pissed off at Karl last fall, why did he promote him to WH CoS? He can’t claim he wanted to put distance between them after doing that.
Comment by Kevin Hayden — October 20, 2005 @ 3:24 pm
To quote a much earlier scandal, “What did the President know, and when did he know it?“
Comment by Stentor — October 20, 2005 @ 6:16 pm
Face the facts, kids….if you all want the White House back, you’re going to have to win an election. And that ain’t about to happen anytime soon. Thank you Michael Moore, et al.
Comment by Woody — October 21, 2005 @ 8:26 am
Hey Gang: Scooter (slept w/ Miller-she busted him), Turdblossom, McClellan will be gone, Brush MAY “clean” his house (more neofascists), other legal eagles will tear up the admin. Repub congressmen, Sens will pull away from GW.
Dems will take the House in 2006 and impeach Coke-whore Jim Beam boy, Chainhead will become pres & pardon them all! But the sicko Repubs will be doomed for years. So BFD?
Comment by Meathead — October 21, 2005 @ 10:05 am
You just don’t get it…but that’s fine. Thanks to syndication, radio is pulling in more and more people to their true core beliefs: Conservatism.
The Lib movement is like the dinosaur, dying in the comet that is Conservative radio. The more we win, the more shrill you all become.
I must admit…it IS fun to watch the implosion :)
Comment by Woody — October 21, 2005 @ 4:40 pm
Woody,
(we all know what a “woody”) is…Randi Rhodes is right about little woody guys, aka “conservatives” (of what?). What is the sound of jaws dropping to the floor, i.e., the jaws of many sicky deadheads like Bush, Cheney, Libby and 1000s of other “conservatives”?
Comment by Meathead — October 23, 2005 @ 8:57 pm
That’s pretty funny! A guy named “Meathead” making fun of my name.
You site a genious like Randi Rhodes??? You’re probably a Franken disciple as well. I love it and I hope you follow them as lemmings do, you and the other listener. (I believe they only have two or so).
Let’s wait and see who takes which seats in ‘06 and the big chair in ‘08. I’m very confident the Libs will lose even more. Sucks to be you.
Comment by Woody — October 25, 2005 @ 5:12 am
Woody,
I love you! You’re a classic who purposely is writing in the wrong colloquy zone, kind of like a whore in church. Don’t you feel just a smidgen odd? The Talent Show is rather obviously linked to Michael Moore’s fantastic website.
You’d best fit in at a humorless angry man site, some burning dynamite-up-the-ass place. It can’t be fun to be a martyr for the stubby right wing side. So perhaps you could rise above yourself, diffuse your sad anger and be objective. It’s certainly more fun!
Have a good time, guy! We all lose some of the time. Down with the neofascists!
Comment by Meathead — October 25, 2005 @ 8:24 am
Aw geez, look at dis, da meathead is at again, hah?
Are you kidding me? I have never had more fun than this place. It’s hysterical to watch the left choke on it’s hatred and vitriol. Besides, even the Great Fat Man needs a comic foil. The only variance is, I play the straight man.
Speaking of humorless, here’s a reminder that’s sure to put a smile on your face…three more years of Dubya :) Cheers.
Comment by Woody — October 25, 2005 @ 10:25 am
Besides…it’s not much fun yakking with people with whom I agree all the time LOL. I need a challenge, and while that has been somewhat limited here, at least it’s a form of opposition.
Comment by Woody — October 25, 2005 @ 4:26 pm
Woody,
thanks for taking the high road. Wish I could do the same, but alas, I just read the story below. This guy is one of your idols. He should be castrated.
From the WashPost:
“VICE PRESIDENT Cheney is aggressively pursuing an initiative that is unprecedented for an elected official of the executive branch: He is proposing that Congress legally authorize human rights abuses by Americans. ‘Cruel, inhuman and degrading’ treatment of prisoners is banned by an international treaty negotiated by Reagan and ratified by the United States.
The State Department annually issues a report criticizing governments for violating it. Now Cheney is asking Congress to allow the CIA to commit such abuses against foreign prisoners it is holding abroad. In other words, this vice president has become an open advocate of torture.” How charming and nauseating.
Down with these American Nazis. Rudolph Hess still lives! Achtung! Seig Heil! All is well in your Right-wing homeland. Gawd, it makes me sick!
Sorry, Woody, or maybe just mahogony head. Can’t believe you are actually an American (are you?). Maybe you’re a test tube clone of Mussolini. Or a Saudi spy or feral James Gannon. Please save yourself from you, a truly amazing person.
Comment by Meathead — October 26, 2005 @ 9:03 am
Hoo boy, you sounded a little like Joe McCarthy at the end there, Meathead.
I bet you’re the kind of guy who could come home from work and find a burglar beating your wife to death, and would politely tap him on the shoulder and ask him to refrain while you summon the authorities.
If someone kidnapped one of your kids and you caught him, only to find out that your child would die within hours, would you do whatever it took to get the information from him to save the child? Or would you get your lawyer to scare the crap out of him with the threat of a lawsuit??
Wake up, already. We are up against an enemy that does not care if he kills a “right wing lunatic” like me, or a “caring, sensitive looney liberal” like you. They simply want us all dead, and they would not hesitate to saw the head off of Rush Limbaugh OR Cindy Sheehan.
Comment by Woody — October 26, 2005 @ 9:58 am
My dear Woody,
you can’t justify your argument or Right Wing (RW) positions, which hopefully for you are based on gullibility or naivete, on paranoid suppositions. We on US soil or in Europe aren’t up against enemies any more than what is historically normal. For years, Europeans have had the violence of the IRA, Basque separatists, Chechens and others. They also had the German Red Army nihilists and others in the 70s.
We have mostly escaped such in-house danger except from the Weather Underground, SLA, SNCC and always the FBI. Now we’ve seen some hate and destruction from the Saudis (Bush’s friends). Big friggin deal! The chicken-little effect on our people today has been worse than it ever was in the past. Our forbears saw Indian Wars that lasted over 200 years, the unparalleled violence before and after the Civil War, a long period during WW2 and the Vietnam War years. We were tougher then than now, as is seen by listening to people like you who have wildly overreacted. You’ve never seen anything.
The 9/11 killers committed, for their cause, the biggest luckout in history. Nothing on that scale will EVER happen again. It’s over. Even if lesser acts occur, what we could lose from gov’t/citizen paranoia is civil liberties and a huge amount of wasted capital, a la “Homeland Security,” excess military expense, FBI overreach and excessive law/order expenses accomplishing very little. Bin Laden is heavily bleeding us and laughing. We’re acting like scared children. He and the media like CNN love it.
What is going on is that a bunch of RW radical Islamic militants want to destroy western civilization. They’re drunk. That’s hugely easier said than done, and is akin to the Bush people (he’s a “dry” drunk) wanting to democratize the Arab countries. Neither will ever happen.
Western powers, esp. our current idiot gov’t managers, need to BACK OFF and not scour the planet to stoke and goad the fools. They’re tougher than us–how many American suicide bombers do you know?
Eventually their own Islamic brothers will stop them, as they always have, just like fellow Americans will stop the present scourge of our own RW, as we always have.
Bush and Co. has wreaked havoc after 9/11. We needed a thoughtful, experienced approach to the world. Instead, we got screwed by selfish, manipulative, cynical, sociopathic assholes. But now they’re toast. Just sit back and watch as the truth dawns on everyone. Libs/Demos and others don’t have to do a thing. The law, the media and their own rats will do it to each other to save their asses.
Reason ALWAYS prevails over fanaticism because people/societies get sick of bastards, esp. in America. The coming cleansing is also YOUR chance to accept reason and conscience and respect history–unless you, too, are a sociopath, in which case you are your own enemy and will never receive caring from others until your own awakening.
Guess you’ll have to choose sides–the angry man side, or the positive energy side. Which one would serve YOU best? And serves your country best?
P.S. If I found a burglar beating my wife, he or me would end up bleeding on the floor.
Comment by Meathead — October 26, 2005 @ 5:42 pm
Wow, I am impressed at the time, effort, and thought you put into that last post. It is a shame that all that energy was spent on an ideaology so warped.
Let’s see if I can adequately sum up:
9/11/01 was nothing more than an inconvenience.
Islamic terrorists are tougher than we are.
And you’re concerned about civil liberties and FBI overreach.
Got it.
So I guess you think it’s perfectly fine for a prosecuter to launch an investigation of a non-crime for the sole purpose of a possible indictment of a possible crime committed in the course of the initially bogus investigation.
After the first World Trade Center bombing, you probably told someone, “This will never happen again. It’s over.” As for their Islamic brothers stopping them, I’d settle for a mention of condemnation, which has to this point been barely whispered.
You mention respect for history, yet you can’t see or recognize it when it’s mere days behind you. Perhaps you’re focused too keenly on the Rove/Libby boondoggle, but there was a democratic vote in Iraq. The second, actually, and a third in December. They have a constitution, imagine that.
It’s quite clear that you hate this country, and you have the right to your opinion no matter how convoluted it may be.
Was that concise enough?
Oh, one other thing. I don’t know where you get the angry man bit, but I’m not angry about anything. Well, I am pissed at the terrorists, but that’s just me.
Comment by Woody — October 27, 2005 @ 4:38 am
Woody,
poor you! Honestly, you write like a clone computer chip in the RW propaganda machine. Your worm’s-eye view, nee bird’s-eye view, of all these issues is woeful. I’ll simply respond to IN CAPS BELOW.
9/11/01 was nothing more than an inconvenience. I DON’T SEE HOW YOU CAN IMPLY THAT CHARACTERIZATION.
Islamic terrorists are tougher than we are. THEY ARE. THE TOUGHEST PEOPLE ARE THOSE THAT HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO FEAR, EVEN OF DEATH. IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT, IT’S MORE THAN YOU CAN IMAGINE.
And you’re concerned about civil liberties and FBI overreach. SURE, LAW ENFORCERS TENDS TO GET CARRIED AWAY. THIS IS WHY WE HAVE AMENDMENTS LIKE THE 4TH. EVEN OUR FOUNDERS KNEW THIS.
Got it.
So I guess you think it’s perfectly fine for a prosecuter to launch an investigation of a non-crime for the sole purpose of a possible indictment of a possible crime committed in the course of the initially bogus investigation. BY CITING THIS INFO YOU’RE PARROTING THE OLD HACK SEN. HUTCHINSON. DON’T YOU BELIEVE IN LAW AND ORDER? OR ONLY WHEN IT’S CONVENIENT? OBVIOUSLY, MY SON, IF OFFICIALS OF ANY PARTY ARE ALLOWED TO LIE TO OR MISLEAD GRAND JURIES OR PROSECUTORS, THEN LAW IS WORTHLESS. IN OUR DEMOCRACY, ALL POWERFUL PEOPLE MUST BE HELD TO THE HIGHEST STANDARDS, UNLIKE IN CHINA, THE MIDEAST AND OTHER PLACES. DON’T YOU HAVE ANY REASONING ABILITY? ARE YOU ON METH?
After the first World Trade Center bombing, you probably told someone, “This will never happen again. It’s over.” AHHH, CRITICAL THINKING SKILL…DON’T YOU WISH YOU HAD IT? THE FIRST ONE DOESN’T REMOTELY COMPARE TO THE SECOND, DOES IT? As for their Islamic brothers stopping them, I’d settle for a mention of condemnation, which has to this point been barely whispered. SURPRISE, SURPRISE… THERE IS SILENCE BECAUSE A CHRISTIAN WESTERN POWER HAS ILLEGALLY INVADED A MUSLIM COUNTRY. ONCE WE LEAVE IRAQ, IF WE EVER CAN, AND THEIR BLOODBATH TO SEE WHO WILL RUN IRAQ ENDS, THINGS WILL SETTLE DOWN. REGIONAL COUNTRIES ARE NERVOUS ABOUT OUR PRESENCE. ALL WANT US OUT, I.E., A SADDAM-LIKE SITUATION WILL RECUR BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT WORKS FOR THOSE PEOPLE. THE PROBLEM IS OUR CLUELESS LEADERS HAVE MAYBE MANAGED TO SEVERELY THREATEN OUR OIL SUPPLY, AS THIS BRAINLESS WAR MAY DESTABILIZE THE SAUDIS. THIS COULD LEAD TO A WORLD DEPRESSION IF SUPPLIES ARE CUT TOO MUCH. THE IRANIANS ALREADY SENSE OUR STUPIDITY AND NOW WEAKNESS, AND COULD BE A THREAT TO THE ENTIRE REGION. WE STIRRED THE HORNETS BECAUSE WE DIDN’T READ HISTORY AND PROCEEDED ON ARROGANCE, A CONTINUATION OF THE DRUNKENNESS OF THE 19TH CENTURY’S MANIFEST DESTINY IDEOLOGY.
You mention respect for history, yet you can’t see or recognize it when it’s mere days behind you. Perhaps you’re focused too keenly on the Rove/Libby boondoggle, but there was a democratic vote in Iraq. The second, actually, and a third in December. They have a constitution, imagine that. SOUNDS FINE IN THE PAPERS, BUT IT’S CRAP, I.E., IT TOOK UNTIL 1837 FOR US TO BE TRULY DEMOCRATIC, AND EVEN THEN WOMEN AND BLACKS COULDN’T VOTE. SO THEY CAN DO IT IN TWO YEARS? GO BACK TO COLLEGE AND LEARN A LITTLE. THEY HAVE NO EXPERIENCE OR NAT’L. HISTORY RE DEMOCRACY OR REPUBLICAN GOVT. THEY’RE TRIBAL AND HAVE ALWAYS HAD POWER DISTRIBUTED IN LINEAL WAYS.
It’s quite clear that you hate this country, BRILLIANT, MY CHILD. AU CONTRAIRE, I WANT AMERICA TO RISE TO AND STAY WITH ITS MISSION AS A BEACON OF RIGHTEOUSNESS AND FAIRNESS IN THE WORLD, NOT ACT AS A TYRANT ELBOWING ITS WAY AROUND LIKE NAPOLEON OR SOME IDEOLOGICAL DRUNK. EVERYONE EXCEPT HILLBIILLIES KNOWS THE RW FANATICS HAVE DAMAGED OUR IMAGE ABROAD. WORLD CITIZENS ARE VERY DISAPPOINTED IN OUR LEADERSHIP. DON’T YOU READ ANYTHING? and you have the right to your opinion no matter how convoluted it may be. ANOTHER TRITE, CLONE-LIKE STATEMENT , WHICH YOU DON’T ACTUALLY BELIEVE.
Was that concise enough? YEAH, A TRULY FORMIDABLE STATEMENT; VERY IMPRESSIVE FOR A CLOSED MIND.
Oh, one other thing. I don’t know where you get the angry man bit, YOU REEK OF ANGER AND NOT LIKING PEOPLE VERY MUCH. OR YOUR THINKING ILLUSTRATES AN INFERIORITY COMPLEX OR NO KNOWLEDGE OF A HIGHER ROAD TO LOVE AND AWARENESS. but I’m not angry about anything. Well, I am pissed at the terrorists, but that’s just me. YOU MAY BE ABLE TO EXPAND YOUR WORLDVIEW–IF YOU LISTEN TO BOTH SIDES RATHER THAN STICK TO THE DEAFENING RW WHINE. I SEE A CRACK IN YOUR VIEW, WHICH MAY BODE WELL FOR YOU AND YOUR ABILITY TO TALK TO OTHERS.
MEATHEAD
Comment by Meathead — October 27, 2005 @ 6:38 am
Are you really Barbra Steisand?
Gonna be a lot of scrolling back and forth to address the issues. I must say, I stand in utter awe at your alleged intellect.
1) There is a difference that goes way beyond semantics in issue one. The gaping disparity is this: Terrorists are indeed dangerous, but tough they are not. Tough is facing an adversary head on and battling until you are victorious or vanquished. Terrorists are nothing more than cowards hiding in the shadows and striking from behind, and if that is what earns the respect you afford them, so be it.
2) Patrick Fitzgerald acknowledged two years ago that there was no violation of the Intelligence Identities Protection Act regarding Valerie Plame due to the fact that she had been assigned overseas for more than five years prior to her “outing”. And yet, he continued the investigation. Under those pretenses, a prosecutor could theoretically launch an investigation against any ordinary citizen and subsequently “fish” for a violation of law. That is what is so frightening.
3) Speaking of “parroting”, you sound as though you are reading straight from the Moveon.org site. “Illegally invaded a muslim country.” Oh, my brainwashed friend, you couldn’t be more wrong. We had a ceasefire from the first gulf war, the conditions which were constantly violated by your pal, Saddam. Not to mention 17 different UN resolutions he thumbed his nose at. Add the fact that he was shooting at our planes daily in the “no-fly” zone, and you could only conclude that we never even needed approval. It was simply a resumption of hostilities.
Oh, my time is up, as I am at work and lunch hour is over.
Comment by Woody — October 27, 2005 @ 10:07 am
Sorry, Woody,
but I give up. You just don’t know enough. You haven’t lived long enough, seen enough hard stuff and done objective research on any of your positions. It doesn’t matter–the law, voters and history will all make it clear for you that, again, the Nixon-launched conservative/Republican movement, in its neurotic, pathological and fanatical intellectual sleaziness is made up of losers. Don’t take it from me, and don’t blame me. Just study Watergate, Iran-Contra, and now Cheney-gate and watch your fellow Republicans once again show their asses. Your people belong in a third world country. You might as well join them because you are a groupy for their mindset, and obviously incapable of objectivity and critical thinking skill. You poor soul! Get ready for a big defeat!
Comment by Meathead — November 1, 2005 @ 6:33 am