Time To Act Like Grownups
Following up on my brief post the other day, SnoodGuy notes over at DailyKos that this Fitzmas shit is getting old :
Am I the only one troubled by the triumphalism on the left about Fitzgerald’s investigation? I felt something cold in my stomach when I saw the term “Fitzmas” on this site last week. I’m all for seeing these crooks go down, but I think this air of celebration isn’t helping us – in fact, it reminds me of the Republicans before the impeachment process, and we know how well that went for them. Two main points below…Whatever the charges or eventual results of this turn out to be, it’s not a happy day in our country if people at the highest level of government are committing crimes. We shouldn’t celebrate it. If we, as Democrats/liberals treat this with festival gusto, we make the whole process look like a partisan gotcha instead of a criminal investigation. So far, Fitzgerald has been apparently professional, detail-oriented, and very terse with the press. Completely unlike, say, Ken Starr and his clown show. I like it that way. This shouldn’t be a Democrat/Republican thing, it should be an American thing. The more we act like the Republicans did with Clinton’s impeachment, the more the public will see it in the same light – standard partisan politics – and the less chance we have of using this to highlight the flaws of the rest of the criminal, hypocritical, boneheaded, amoral Republican agenda.
This isn’t a partisan game and it’s not funny. Treating the indictments of government officials like a holiday is pretty childish coming from a left-wing so politically neutered that we have to rely on a grand jury to score political points for us. So wipe that smile off your face. George W. Bush is going to be President for the next three years. The next chance the Democrats have to regain the Senate and the House is more than a year away, but despite every Republican misstep that’s happened lately, it’s still doubtful that Democrats will be able to get their shit together well enough to swing either body. You want to celebrate? Try winning an election first. Just because your opponent fell doesn’t mean you knocked him down.
You say “schadenfreude”, I say “fucking embarrassment”.
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it reminds me of the Republicans before the impeachment process, and we know how well that went for them
Yeah…they’re having it rough right now…what with control of the entire government and all that…good thing they didn’t try to impeach Clinton, otherwise….wait…huh?
Comment by Peter — October 25, 2005 @ 6:51 pm
Your article is one of the biggest pieces of shit I have ever seen on the internet. The Bush Administration is one of the most dangerous political organizations ever to walk the earth. The media has done nothing to stop it and its lies, and has in fact supported it every step of the way. I see nothing wrong in revelling in the fact that the Evil Empire is crumbling, despite the crap that you are disseminating.
Comment by DG — October 25, 2005 @ 7:38 pm
The Bush Administration is one of the most dangerous political organizations ever to walk the earth.
and it still is. i see no reason to celebrate when the Administration still governs over the country.
give me the outlawing of lobbyists, the restoration of stringent EPA laws, the end of corporate welfare, any of the above really.. and i will throw the whole world a party. until then color me unimpressed.
i hate to piss on parades but i see nothing in the case that tells me that it’s not going to be Iran/Contra all over again.
Comment by almostinfamous — October 25, 2005 @ 8:18 pm
I think it’s good for the country (any country really) when corrupt, megalomaniacal, incompetent leadership is humbled by scandal. That it is Republican leadership this time is just gravy for us Democrat partisans; please don’t begrudge us a little bit of glee.
One of the aspects of America that has been widely respected around the world is that we brought down Nixon. Just in the last 100 years, we’ve brought down or weakened Harding (who was so distraught he died), Nixon, Clinton (who abused power in a petty and stupid personal way, but was otherwise a great president), and soon one hopes Bush 43.
Comment by Bill Arnold — October 25, 2005 @ 8:25 pm
We really have to stop acting as if this administration is an American wing of government. They lost TWO elections and are running things anyway. This is NOTHING like partisan gloating, nothing whatever like the Clinton impeachment. These guys stole the White House, very possibly had something to do with 9/11, and lied to get our troops into Iraq to kill tens of thousands and be killed. The term “Fitzmas” is indeed a little silly, but concerned people have been apoplectic with worry that nothing can stop these fiends at our helm. Finally the evil regime seems to be toppling. Finally we have a hope that our country, our rule of law, might actually reassert itself, throw off the fascists. A fucking embarrassment is right, and if our opponent falls, it WILL mean we knocked him down. HE DIDN’T WIN ANY ELECTION. THEY ARE NOT PATRIOTS. THEY ARE NOT FIT TO BE CITIZENS. Fitzpatrick has the chance to go down in history as the savior of our nation.
Comment by Agent 99 — October 25, 2005 @ 10:56 pm
Greg, it is asking a bit much to expect others to share the line you appeared to have drawn.
Virutally all situations that involve large, opposing parties have segments of folk that don’t mind lobbing some ad hominems when their opponents are down. This is not new. It may not measure up on the utopian scale, but it is effective. It is also in our nature in the sense that we use it for posturing both individually and collectively.
I suppose you’d hate the fact that I reminded people to leave out milk and cookies for Fitzmas at my blog. Nor would you be excited that I put up a ‘Fitzmas Tracker’ that is tracking Fitz around a map of DC like the Christmas Eve Santa Trackers.
Juvenille? Or, a vehicle for sorely needed laughter in a part of us that has been in the doom and gloom phase for years. I’ll take the latter.
We all have lines. Now we know where yours is on this subject.
-Monk
Comment by Monk — October 25, 2005 @ 11:45 pm
My understanding is that shadenfreude was more neutral, like the joy of watching a guy get hit in the groin by a football, not watching the downfall of despicable men.
I understand your concern, but I think it is misplaced. It would certainly be wrong if our Senators and Representatives rejoiced publicly at the arrival of indictments, or if there were staffer parties. True, it is sad when we have criminals in high places, but, here’s the thing, we’ve been sad about it for a long time.
We’ve known that these guys will do anything to crush their opponents, we’ve known the moral vacuum that is in Rove’s heart. We saw the Swift Boating and other smears against domestic opponents, and we knew that our republic was in danger, whether laws were being broken or not. The Plame case, though, was clear evidence that they would do anything to get their enemies. Personally, I don’t know if they knew if Plame was a NOC, but, if the didn’t, they were so determined to smear Wilson that they didn’t check.
That justice has been so slow makes indictments all the more a happy event, not a sad one. It is a sad thing when people in the White House engage in criminal acts, but it would be far sadder if nobody was ever held accountable. Given how hard this White House avoids accountability for anything, it is a relief and cause for celebration when someone holds them accountable for their acts.
Comment by Misplaced Patriot — October 26, 2005 @ 6:22 am
I respect your position, Greg. In fact I came into the comments ready to type “Great post, Greg!” I’ve never even typed the word “Fitzmas” until this second.
I thnk I’m coming down somewhere between you and Misplaced Patriot (above).
I will be fucking ecstatic if these guys go down. Not because I am glad they lived down to expectations, that they are Republicans or that this helps my side (that remains to be seen and done). I will be happy because they didn’t get away with it. Yeah, it’s a shameful affair, but like any criminal caught and tried, there is reason for the victims (and in this case that’s most of the people in this country whether they realize it or not) to celebrate.
So, no Fitzmas for me, I’m not having a Indictment Party or raising my glass to this country’s misfortune. But if I ever found myself in a bar with Patrick Fitzgerald, I’d be sure to buy him a drink and thank him for his service.
Comment by Mr Furious — October 26, 2005 @ 7:56 am
Most of us already knew that this White House operated immorally and probably illegally, so we’re not upset in the face of this revelation of details. On the contrary, having been upset that our country was being run by such a corrupt group, we are relatively happy to see some modicum of justice headed their way.
Comment by Tap dancer — October 26, 2005 @ 8:38 am
Sadly, I expect any glee in this to count against us. Sure, the Republicans did it, but they are rubber. We are glue. They acted like this and it never bit them in the ass. We act like this, even for a minute, and it’ll be tattooed on our facking foreheads. IOKIYAR: it’s not just a slogan, it’s a fact of life.
Comment by Kip W — October 26, 2005 @ 9:51 am
You’re right — that we have crooks in government is no cause for celebration. That they got there in the first place is an embarrasment for the opposing party specifically and the democratic process in general.
But the fact that it this is not a perfect political victory for my party does not diminish my joy at seeing their ability to hurt this country reduced.
And even if it’s not a victory for my party, it is at least an indication that our system of government still has enough power left in it that the law can still challenge the lawmakers. That our power to use the government to police the government is not completely dead strikes me as a good excuse for a hearty toast.
Comment by Thud — October 26, 2005 @ 10:35 am
One of the things I admired about WJC, was the way he just kept on working despite all of the sniping coming from seemingly every angle. Governing well is the best revenge. Crowing over some soon-to-be-pardoned indictments is for pathetic losers. The Bush Administration is an ongoing criminal enterprise and must be held subject to the rule of law. This infantile and trivializing nah-nah-nahing subverts the entire effort. We are in a sad state of affairs and it will be a sad day if and when half the cabinet is frog-marched out. This “Fitzmas” braying just plays to the Right, as they will spin it as proof that the democrats are defeatist deadheads with no positive ideas of their own.
Comment by ESOTH — October 26, 2005 @ 11:02 am
If you think this one is bad, don’t go to FreeRepublic.com. Your head will explode.
Gosh, really? Thanks for bringing that to my attention. Maybe one of these days I’ll get around to writing about it.
Comment by greg — October 26, 2005 @ 11:05 am
It’s a damn good point, Greg.
Expecting mature restraint to be considered, much less appreciated, is another story altogether.
It’s like the sad-sack team that’s on an unprecedented losing string, but they finally win a game — by forfeit.
Does that prevent the sad-sacks from screaming from the tree-tops like howler monkeys about getting off the snide?
Like they actually accomplished something?
Like it somehow vindicates their unprecedented failure?
Course not.
Like every other opportunity, Dems/libs are sure to find a way to squander this one, too.
Sort of sad, but it is what it is.
Comment by dr — October 26, 2005 @ 11:32 am
I disagree that it’s not a partisan game. Everything is a partisan game. You’re telling me when Fox News repeats the phrase “The Criminalization of Politics” over and over…that’s not partisan?
Some things should just be “American”, but that’s not the way it works in today’s political environment. The other side has milked the tragedy of 9/11 over and over again for political gain, so I don’t feel the least bit sorry for Karl Rove getting indicted. ‘Tis the season to be jolly!
Comment by gas head — October 26, 2005 @ 12:31 pm
i dont think there is anything wrong in being happy bout these creeps finally being “busted” or “outed” as the crooks they are. so many people have swallowed the BS from these guys and from fox news, but they can’t delude themselves any longer. and that is why i’m glad – no one would listen to us “traitors” criticizing bushco or trying to expose their duplicity… they thought it was all “politics” or sour grapes. but now they are beginning to see the corruption that too many were afraid to expose… and i’m glad they’re getting caught at doing what they’ve always done – destroy any critics and intimidate anyone who dares question them or speak against them.
Comment by empty chair — October 26, 2005 @ 12:42 pm
Everything is NOT a partisan game. The attitude that it is most certainly contributes to the fundamental decline of democracy here. The Patriot Act, treated as a partisan game, insures its unamerican nature can prevail. I don’t care what party you’re in, or what you think about any issues: I WANT YOU TO LOOK AT THE FACTS AND DO WHATEVER YOU CAN TO REGAIN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA OUT OF THIS FASCIST QUAGMIRE. Our country is broken. This is not a partisan game! Our country is broken. Rip out all the subversions of our Bill of Rights, our Constitution, make it bulletproof, and then play all the partisan games you want. The neocons have proved to the world our democracy is not solid. March them into jail and nail up the CONSTITUTION, not the flag, all over the country. Stars and stripes do not symbolize this country. Guts, heart and that document do…. That’s supposed to be true for everyone in all parties. So. I repeat: Everyting is NOT a partisan game.
Comment by Agent 99 — October 26, 2005 @ 12:55 pm
What a strange collection of comments on an equally strange post.
Perhaps in the insular world of the blogs “Fitzmas” is as big an issue as “Happy Holidays” was last year on Fox, but outside the blogosphere most people are unaware of this scandle, and certainly clueless about the name of the prosecuter.
So often liberal Democrats imagine that Republicans, or undecided voters, or perhaps some imaginary impartial academic somewhere, is watching and paying attention to their behaviour, checking for signs of moral immaturity, a lack of level-headedness, unfairness, or partisanship. It is typcal of the delusional fantasy world in which so many Democrats live. No one who matters knows or cares whether you invent clever names for this happy occasion. This is not the type of thing that worries someone who has anything important to think about or do.
It is fantastic that Fitzgerald thinks he can bring these criminals to justice. I am elated, and you should be as well. Am I happy because criminals control the federal government, and this has finally been shown to be true? Of course not. You and I and everyone we know has been saying this, without pause, for years. It is hardly our fault that the rest of the country needs a handful of indictments to wake them out of the incurious stupor, and it is hardly improper to be happy about it, sense it is no fault of ours that these indictments are being made.
As for the indictments themselves, they are the result of a lot of hard, patient work. Just because no one in the liberal blogosphere was paying attention to this investigation six months ago does not give them a reason to behave as if Chistmas has come early. On the contrary, as Greg pointed out, what Fitzgerald has accomplished is a perfect example of everything liberals and leftists fail at: patient, hard work, being in it for the long-haul, real open-mindedness, and a dedication to law and order as the basis of government. Enjoy the occasion, throw a pary if you like, but be sure and learn the lesson well: patience, hard work and intelligence win the game.
Comment by Joe — October 26, 2005 @ 1:31 pm
I agree with you that “Fitzmas” is a pretty silly term, but I disagree about the rejoicing.
The indictments aren’t the trajedy. The outing was the trajedy, and the outrage on that is still going strong after two years. That somebody may be held accountable for it, especially in these acountability-free days, is certainly cause for celebration.
More broadly, the real trajedy is that Bush was ever elected (let alone twice) and that these people should have ever walked the halls of power. There’s a sickness in this country, and I think we all see it. Momentary happiness doesn’t obscure that.
Pardon the analogy, but I don’t think you chastize troops for celebrating a battle victory just because the war isn’t over yet. People need to feel good about SOMETHING once in awhile, or they lose hope. I think it would be wiser to simply remind everyone to dig deep, because we still have a long way to go.
But at this point, we need the morale boost.
Comment by Royko — October 26, 2005 @ 2:53 pm
I like it, and you can’t stop me from smiling about it.
color me cautiously-not-entirely-pessimistic.
If you can’t enjoy losing, how much will you enjoy winning? Celebration takes practice, celebrate little things too.
the term is a bit overused though, must be the company I keep.
Comment by mdhåtter — October 26, 2005 @ 7:16 pm
Add my name to those celebrating. Not because there was corruption – certainly nothing in which to rejoice, and we knew about it years ago anyway – but because it’s coming out, and justice is (finally) being served. We liberals have had precious few moments to embrace these last five or so years, and I’m not gonna worry about what the rightists (or anyone, for that matter) thinks right now. Shut up and let me have my schadenfreude; this is nothing like Clinton’s impeachment. (Besides, last I checked, no one cares what we long-haired hippie freaks think anyway; it’s not as if we’re the big movers and shakers. The Democratic Party elected officials are saying the right things, so don’t worry about being perceived as hypocritical or too gleeful.)
I love your site and almost all of your opinions, Greg, but I really think you’re in the minority (at least among liberals) on this one.
Comment by Ben — October 27, 2005 @ 1:50 pm