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	<title>Comments on: &#8230;Worse Than The Crime</title>
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		<title>By: jack</title>
		<link>http://www.thetalentshow.org/2006/02/17/worse-than-the-crime/comment-page-1/#comment-9574</link>
		<dc:creator>jack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Feb 2006 01:59:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetalentshow.org/wp/?p=2264#comment-9574</guid>
		<description>yo Arthur- No, we don&#039;t need to make stuff up. But we also don&#039;t need to spend our time separating the rocks from the pebbles that are being thrown at the right wing. Unless, of course, the progressive movement has the energy and resources to mount a successful campaign against the regime, while ALSO simultaneously pointing out to the right wingers what attacks they should and shouldn&#039;t be spending their time defending against. However, you can&#039;t put an opponent on the defensive that way. At least, not a fanatical opponent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>yo Arthur- No, we don&#8217;t need to make stuff up. But we also don&#8217;t need to spend our time separating the rocks from the pebbles that are being thrown at the right wing. Unless, of course, the progressive movement has the energy and resources to mount a successful campaign against the regime, while ALSO simultaneously pointing out to the right wingers what attacks they should and shouldn&#8217;t be spending their time defending against. However, you can&#8217;t put an opponent on the defensive that way. At least, not a fanatical opponent.</p>
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		<title>By: edgarallenpoe</title>
		<link>http://www.thetalentshow.org/2006/02/17/worse-than-the-crime/comment-page-1/#comment-9573</link>
		<dc:creator>edgarallenpoe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Feb 2006 15:15:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetalentshow.org/wp/?p=2264#comment-9573</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Wasn&#039;t this theory debunked by a doctor from NYC who said that the bird shot was too large to have travelled through the veins then through the lungs and then into the heart.&lt;/blockquote&gt;


I firmly believe that Whittington was much closer to Cheney than 90 feet, but that doctor doesn&#039;t know anatomy.  The veins do not go through the lungs on the way to the heart.  The lungs have a &lt;a href=&quot;http://sln.fi.edu/biosci/systems/pulmonary.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;separate circulatory system&lt;/a&gt; that starts with the pulmonary artery.  The &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=9187&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;jugular vein&lt;/a&gt; in the neck is big enough to transport birdshot to the heart through the superior vena cava.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Wasn&#8217;t this theory debunked by a doctor from NYC who said that the bird shot was too large to have travelled through the veins then through the lungs and then into the heart.</p></blockquote>
<p>I firmly believe that Whittington was much closer to Cheney than 90 feet, but that doctor doesn&#8217;t know anatomy.  The veins do not go through the lungs on the way to the heart.  The lungs have a <a href="http://sln.fi.edu/biosci/systems/pulmonary.html" rel="nofollow">separate circulatory system</a> that starts with the pulmonary artery.  The <a href="http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=9187" rel="nofollow">jugular vein</a> in the neck is big enough to transport birdshot to the heart through the superior vena cava.</p>
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		<title>By: Ａｒｔｈｕｒ</title>
		<link>http://www.thetalentshow.org/2006/02/17/worse-than-the-crime/comment-page-1/#comment-9572</link>
		<dc:creator>Ａｒｔｈｕｒ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Feb 2006 15:06:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetalentshow.org/wp/?p=2264#comment-9572</guid>
		<description>Hmmm, interesting Jack (above poster).  In order to criticise the Bush administration we need to make shit up?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmmm, interesting Jack (above poster).  In order to criticise the Bush administration we need to make shit up?</p>
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		<title>By: jack</title>
		<link>http://www.thetalentshow.org/2006/02/17/worse-than-the-crime/comment-page-1/#comment-9571</link>
		<dc:creator>jack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Feb 2006 16:01:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetalentshow.org/wp/?p=2264#comment-9571</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t recall conservatives doing any debunking work on the &quot;Vince Foster was killed&quot; theory. But, if people on this site feel it&#039;s in the best interests of political progressiveness to immediately start undermining this attempt to paint Cheney with a broadly-smearing brush, well then I&#039;m sure you know what you&#039;re doing. Keep up the good work! The Bush dynasty thanks you for your continued efforts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t recall conservatives doing any debunking work on the &#8220;Vince Foster was killed&#8221; theory. But, if people on this site feel it&#8217;s in the best interests of political progressiveness to immediately start undermining this attempt to paint Cheney with a broadly-smearing brush, well then I&#8217;m sure you know what you&#8217;re doing. Keep up the good work! The Bush dynasty thanks you for your continued efforts.</p>
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		<title>By: Meltro</title>
		<link>http://www.thetalentshow.org/2006/02/17/worse-than-the-crime/comment-page-1/#comment-9570</link>
		<dc:creator>Meltro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Feb 2006 16:48:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetalentshow.org/wp/?p=2264#comment-9570</guid>
		<description>I forgot to mention, there is one more thing that can artificially increase the density of the spread: angle

Let us assume for a moment that someone swings a loaded shotgun in your direction, what is your first reaction? You probably don&#039;t stand there dumbfounded facing directly at the weapon, more likely, you at least attempt to turn away.

Draw two dots on a piece of paper. Then, place your chin on the table and look at the dots. Without moving your head, turn the piece of paper. Depending on where you drew the dots, the percieved distance between them will either shrink or grow.

The same thing likely happened in this case to at least SOME degree. Consider for a moment if the lawyer had turned fourty five degrees and two pellets hit (I know more than that hit, consider just these two for the moment): one on the tip of the nose, and the other on his cheek. From the angle the weapon was fired from, there is about 2&quot; of spread between the shots. If the lawyer then turns to face you, the two shots would now appear only 1&quot; apart, although the actual spread was 2&quot;.

Just another variable that must be dealt with.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I forgot to mention, there is one more thing that can artificially increase the density of the spread: angle</p>
<p>Let us assume for a moment that someone swings a loaded shotgun in your direction, what is your first reaction? You probably don&#8217;t stand there dumbfounded facing directly at the weapon, more likely, you at least attempt to turn away.</p>
<p>Draw two dots on a piece of paper. Then, place your chin on the table and look at the dots. Without moving your head, turn the piece of paper. Depending on where you drew the dots, the percieved distance between them will either shrink or grow.</p>
<p>The same thing likely happened in this case to at least SOME degree. Consider for a moment if the lawyer had turned fourty five degrees and two pellets hit (I know more than that hit, consider just these two for the moment): one on the tip of the nose, and the other on his cheek. From the angle the weapon was fired from, there is about 2&#8243; of spread between the shots. If the lawyer then turns to face you, the two shots would now appear only 1&#8243; apart, although the actual spread was 2&#8243;.</p>
<p>Just another variable that must be dealt with.</p>
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		<title>By: Meltro</title>
		<link>http://www.thetalentshow.org/2006/02/17/worse-than-the-crime/comment-page-1/#comment-9569</link>
		<dc:creator>Meltro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Feb 2006 16:21:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetalentshow.org/wp/?p=2264#comment-9569</guid>
		<description>(Haven&#039;t read too much of the above)

First note, the shotgun used is not the one that Cheney was using. Although the same gauge and approximate length, the much bigger issue is the choke. There isn&#039;t a single degree of choke, it goes from no choke (straight barrel) to full choke, with extreme differences in spread pattern.

I do agree with wickedpinto, the shot pattern can be a very effective demonstration of distance IF YOU HAVE ACCURATELY REPLICATED THE WEAPON AND CHOKE! A proper test done at many different distances with the choke type on Cheneys weapon, with average spread area and concentration, could nail the distance down to within a foot.

7/10 for attempted science
2/10 for pre-experiment research
0/10 for style (NO credible experiment begins with conjecture, no matter how far fetched or likely true. Science is objective and precise, any conjecture presented is presented for the purpose of being tested within the experiment. In this case, only thoughts related to Cheney&#039;s potential distance from target)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(Haven&#8217;t read too much of the above)</p>
<p>First note, the shotgun used is not the one that Cheney was using. Although the same gauge and approximate length, the much bigger issue is the choke. There isn&#8217;t a single degree of choke, it goes from no choke (straight barrel) to full choke, with extreme differences in spread pattern.</p>
<p>I do agree with wickedpinto, the shot pattern can be a very effective demonstration of distance IF YOU HAVE ACCURATELY REPLICATED THE WEAPON AND CHOKE! A proper test done at many different distances with the choke type on Cheneys weapon, with average spread area and concentration, could nail the distance down to within a foot.</p>
<p>7/10 for attempted science<br />
2/10 for pre-experiment research<br />
0/10 for style (NO credible experiment begins with conjecture, no matter how far fetched or likely true. Science is objective and precise, any conjecture presented is presented for the purpose of being tested within the experiment. In this case, only thoughts related to Cheney&#8217;s potential distance from target)</p>
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		<title>By: Pepsi</title>
		<link>http://www.thetalentshow.org/2006/02/17/worse-than-the-crime/comment-page-1/#comment-9568</link>
		<dc:creator>Pepsi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Feb 2006 15:40:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetalentshow.org/wp/?p=2264#comment-9568</guid>
		<description>Hey! For the guy calling the &quot;cancer in Diet Coke&quot; story a sign of being a nut job, I suggest you Google benzene and &quot;soft drinks&quot;.

You might just spit out your soda.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey! For the guy calling the &#8220;cancer in Diet Coke&#8221; story a sign of being a nut job, I suggest you Google benzene and &#8220;soft drinks&#8221;.</p>
<p>You might just spit out your soda.</p>
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		<title>By: vic silverfish</title>
		<link>http://www.thetalentshow.org/2006/02/17/worse-than-the-crime/comment-page-1/#comment-9567</link>
		<dc:creator>vic silverfish</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Feb 2006 14:06:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetalentshow.org/wp/?p=2264#comment-9567</guid>
		<description>&quot;Migration&quot;

This is believeable.  It is difficult for birdshot to penetrate the chest wall from any distance.  The pellet probably lodged inside the ribcage near where the shoulders join the neck(where there is space that isn&#039;t protected by the ribs).  From there, gravity will migrate it south towards the heart. 

If the pellet got into a neck artery, it would have lodged in the neck/brain causing a stroke, in a vein, it probably would have lodged in the lungs, or gotten stuck in a valve.  

It would be easy to stop all the speculation if the medical reports were released.  This won&#039;t happen, his records are private and protected. 

Looking at this guys other site, he is a flake, but his experimental work stands up. That&#039;s the great thing about science...any bozo can do good work.  If you don&#039;t believe it, design and conduct your own experiments!  Proove him wrong! 

/vic</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Migration&#8221;</p>
<p>This is believeable.  It is difficult for birdshot to penetrate the chest wall from any distance.  The pellet probably lodged inside the ribcage near where the shoulders join the neck(where there is space that isn&#8217;t protected by the ribs).  From there, gravity will migrate it south towards the heart. </p>
<p>If the pellet got into a neck artery, it would have lodged in the neck/brain causing a stroke, in a vein, it probably would have lodged in the lungs, or gotten stuck in a valve.  </p>
<p>It would be easy to stop all the speculation if the medical reports were released.  This won&#8217;t happen, his records are private and protected. </p>
<p>Looking at this guys other site, he is a flake, but his experimental work stands up. That&#8217;s the great thing about science&#8230;any bozo can do good work.  If you don&#8217;t believe it, design and conduct your own experiments!  Proove him wrong! </p>
<p>/vic</p>
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		<title>By: Prudence Goodwife</title>
		<link>http://www.thetalentshow.org/2006/02/17/worse-than-the-crime/comment-page-1/#comment-9566</link>
		<dc:creator>Prudence Goodwife</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Feb 2006 13:42:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetalentshow.org/wp/?p=2264#comment-9566</guid>
		<description>&quot;There is a think called migration (theres a lot of other terms for it.) it basicaly means that anything that enters any of the numerous vascular highways in the human body, ALWAYS ends up in the heart, ALWAYS! &quot;

Wasn&#039;t this theory debunked by a doctor from NYC who said that the bird shot was too large to have travelled through the veins then through the lungs and then into the heart.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;There is a think called migration (theres a lot of other terms for it.) it basicaly means that anything that enters any of the numerous vascular highways in the human body, ALWAYS ends up in the heart, ALWAYS! &#8221;</p>
<p>Wasn&#8217;t this theory debunked by a doctor from NYC who said that the bird shot was too large to have travelled through the veins then through the lungs and then into the heart.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe</title>
		<link>http://www.thetalentshow.org/2006/02/17/worse-than-the-crime/comment-page-1/#comment-9565</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Feb 2006 13:03:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetalentshow.org/wp/?p=2264#comment-9565</guid>
		<description>As interesting as I find the results of this experiment, I laughed my ass off when he went after the chicken and the watermelon.  I was really hoping he&#039;d keep going from there, maybe try to shoot a bag of pudding or a plate of Jeno&#039;s Pizza Rolls.

Personally, I think Cheney was tripping, maybe on mushrooms, and thought that Whittington was a Yeti.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As interesting as I find the results of this experiment, I laughed my ass off when he went after the chicken and the watermelon.  I was really hoping he&#8217;d keep going from there, maybe try to shoot a bag of pudding or a plate of Jeno&#8217;s Pizza Rolls.</p>
<p>Personally, I think Cheney was tripping, maybe on mushrooms, and thought that Whittington was a Yeti.</p>
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