Comments on: A Tolerable Form of “Murder” http://www.thetalentshow.org/2006/10/25/a-tolerable-form-of-murder/ Just another WordPress weblog Sat, 30 Aug 2008 02:32:15 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.2 By: Doobie http://www.thetalentshow.org/2006/10/25/a-tolerable-form-of-murder/#comment-11162 Doobie Sat, 28 Oct 2006 04:23:39 +0000 http://www.thetalentshow.org/2006/10/25/a-tolerable-form-of-murder/#comment-11162 "...it's EMBRYONIC stem cell research and cloning we oppose..."<br /> We?<br /> Who's "We"?<br /> It's hard to reconcile this mindset with old-school Republican values. “…it’s EMBRYONIC stem cell research and cloning we oppose…”
We?
Who’s “We”?
It’s hard to reconcile this mindset with old-school Republican values.

]]> By: Kamachanda http://www.thetalentshow.org/2006/10/25/a-tolerable-form-of-murder/#comment-11161 Kamachanda Fri, 27 Oct 2006 09:29:39 +0000 http://www.thetalentshow.org/2006/10/25/a-tolerable-form-of-murder/#comment-11161 With 2820 deaths of US servicemen and a low estimate of 44,736 Iraqi deaths sinch march 19 2003, the 30 plus deaths a day in Iraq are an acceptable form of murder. Hope we find those weapons of mass destruction soon..... With 2820 deaths of US servicemen and a low estimate of 44,736 Iraqi deaths sinch march 19 2003, the 30 plus deaths a day in Iraq are an acceptable form of murder. Hope we find those weapons of mass destruction soon…..

]]> By: Zuckerfrosch http://www.thetalentshow.org/2006/10/25/a-tolerable-form-of-murder/#comment-11160 Zuckerfrosch Fri, 27 Oct 2006 01:52:30 +0000 http://www.thetalentshow.org/2006/10/25/a-tolerable-form-of-murder/#comment-11160 BCMG: I don't know what your training in science is, but as a cell biologist who has done research involving adult stem cells, let me address your point. There is only one type of stem cell that can become all of the several hundred different types of cells that are in an adult body: a fertilized egg. With each passing division, the cells become more and more specified for a specific fate, meaning that while embryonic stem cells can be used to generate many, many different cell types, adult stem cells can only differentiate into a specific group of cells (that's why there's one type of 'embryonic stem cell,' but many types of adult stem cells (skin, bone, blood, etc.). Furthermore, the idea that adult stem cells hold the same, or more, promise than embryonic stem cells, means that you are framing advocates of embryonic stem cell research as people not interested so much in curing disease, but killing (so called) babies. Why is that? Do we have a blood lust? Do we hate 64- to 128-cell blastocysts with all our hearts? In fact, if adult stem cells had a similar plasticity as embryonic stem cells, or even close, they would work much, much better. In this case, adult stem cells could be removed from a patient, treated (with drugs or genetically) and returned, and there would be no ethical quandry, nor an issue of immune rejection, since the tissue would be the patient's own. Since adult stem cells have as of yet proven extremely limited in treating disease (with the major advance being in bone marrow transplantation), and though years of research have gone into learning as much as possible about adult stem cells (and will and should continue), they are not versatle enough to be considered as promising for as many diseases as embryonic stem cells. Which is funny, because I came here to post on how I thought capital punishment was murder and my tax dollars were paying for it, but that's life (or at least, a ball of cells). Z BCMG:

I don’t know what your training in science is, but as a cell biologist who has done research involving adult stem cells, let me address your point. There is only one type of stem cell that can become all of the several hundred different types of cells that are in an adult body: a fertilized egg. With each passing division, the cells become more and more specified for a specific fate, meaning that while embryonic stem cells can be used to generate many, many different cell types, adult stem cells can only differentiate into a specific group of cells (that’s why there’s one type of ‘embryonic stem cell,’ but many types of adult stem cells (skin, bone, blood, etc.).

Furthermore, the idea that adult stem cells hold the same, or more, promise than embryonic stem cells, means that you are framing advocates of embryonic stem cell research as people not interested so much in curing disease, but killing (so called) babies. Why is that? Do we have a blood lust? Do we hate 64- to 128-cell blastocysts with all our hearts?

In fact, if adult stem cells had a similar plasticity as embryonic stem cells, or even close, they would work much, much better. In this case, adult stem cells could be removed from a patient, treated (with drugs or genetically) and returned, and there would be no ethical quandry, nor an issue of immune rejection, since the tissue would be the patient’s own. Since adult stem cells have as of yet proven extremely limited in treating disease (with the major advance being in bone marrow transplantation), and though years of research have gone into learning as much as possible about adult stem cells (and will and should continue), they are not versatle enough to be considered as promising for as many diseases as embryonic stem cells.

Which is funny, because I came here to post on how I thought capital punishment was murder and my tax dollars were paying for it, but that’s life (or at least, a ball of cells).

Z

]]> By: dAVE http://www.thetalentshow.org/2006/10/25/a-tolerable-form-of-murder/#comment-11159 dAVE Thu, 26 Oct 2006 21:31:34 +0000 http://www.thetalentshow.org/2006/10/25/a-tolerable-form-of-murder/#comment-11159 Also, I wish they'd use the term blastocyst stem cell research. These aren't embryos with little flipper limbs we're talking about here. These are little balls of a few dozen cells. No nerves, no heart, etc. Also, I wish they’d use the term blastocyst stem cell research. These aren’t embryos with little flipper limbs we’re talking about here. These are little balls of a few dozen cells. No nerves, no heart, etc.

]]> By: Cris http://www.thetalentshow.org/2006/10/25/a-tolerable-form-of-murder/#comment-11158 Cris Thu, 26 Oct 2006 19:56:38 +0000 http://www.thetalentshow.org/2006/10/25/a-tolerable-form-of-murder/#comment-11158 I like the fact that BCMG puts "elections" in scare quotes. I like the fact that BCMG puts “elections” in scare quotes.

]]> By: BCMG http://www.thetalentshow.org/2006/10/25/a-tolerable-form-of-murder/#comment-11157 BCMG Thu, 26 Oct 2006 18:01:46 +0000 http://www.thetalentshow.org/2006/10/25/a-tolerable-form-of-murder/#comment-11157 Sweetheart, the Republicans do not oppose stem cell research - it's EMBROYNIC stem cell research and cloning we oppose. There's a lot of stem cell research happening right now. Look it up! As far as the first person who said they oppose funding the war in Iraq - well - that's why we have "elections". So you have the opportunity to vote for people who would cut off funding for the war in Iraq. You could also vote for someone who wants to publicly fund embroyonic stem cell research and cloning... do you see how this works? Really - you should have learned this in the 5th grade, but I'm glad I could teach you something. As far as "just a bunch of people getting cured" there is no proof whatsoever that using an embroyo (or a "human being" as us insane over the top conservatives like to call it) will produce better results than adult stem cells. None. Sweetheart, the Republicans do not oppose stem cell research - it’s EMBROYNIC stem cell research and cloning we oppose. There’s a lot of stem cell research happening right now. Look it up! As far as the first person who said they oppose funding the war in Iraq - well - that’s why we have “elections”. So you have the opportunity to vote for people who would cut off funding for the war in Iraq. You could also vote for someone who wants to publicly fund embroyonic stem cell research and cloning… do you see how this works? Really - you should have learned this in the 5th grade, but I’m glad I could teach you something. As far as “just a bunch of people getting cured” there is no proof whatsoever that using an embroyo (or a “human being” as us insane over the top conservatives like to call it) will produce better results than adult stem cells. None.

]]> By: dAVE http://www.thetalentshow.org/2006/10/25/a-tolerable-form-of-murder/#comment-11156 dAVE Thu, 26 Oct 2006 17:15:32 +0000 http://www.thetalentshow.org/2006/10/25/a-tolerable-form-of-murder/#comment-11156 Also, in regards to the snowflake babies, they likely had to implant several embryos for each one that took hold and successfully developed. So, even there, they are killing several embryos with each attempt at successful gestation. Also, in regards to the snowflake babies, they likely had to implant several embryos for each one that took hold and successfully developed. So, even there, they are killing several embryos with each attempt at successful gestation.

]]> By: The Idiot http://www.thetalentshow.org/2006/10/25/a-tolerable-form-of-murder/#comment-11155 The Idiot Thu, 26 Oct 2006 14:59:08 +0000 http://www.thetalentshow.org/2006/10/25/a-tolerable-form-of-murder/#comment-11155 I did a series on this on <a href="http://thenobleidiot.com/Site/Blog/5E7AD5EE-1569-436F-A6FE-FFDFB8F494D2.html" rel="nofollow">my blog</a> back when Bush vetoed the stem cell bill. It's true, they want to get away with calling the research "murder" (apology notwithstanding), but it's not "murder" enough to actually outlaw. Which means they don't really morally have that much of a problem with it. I think it's more an economic policy - their free market policies run amok. Instead of using public funds to do the research (like they successfully did with polio) they want corporations to handle it - and make lots of money. Nobody's stock price goes up if the medical breakthrough is make in the public sector. Just a bunch of people get cured. And really, what good is that? I did a series on this on my blog back when Bush vetoed the stem cell bill. It’s true, they want to get away with calling the research “murder” (apology notwithstanding), but it’s not “murder” enough to actually outlaw. Which means they don’t really morally have that much of a problem with it.

I think it’s more an economic policy - their free market policies run amok. Instead of using public funds to do the research (like they successfully did with polio) they want corporations to handle it - and make lots of money. Nobody’s stock price goes up if the medical breakthrough is make in the public sector.

Just a bunch of people get cured. And really, what good is that?

]]> By: Cris http://www.thetalentshow.org/2006/10/25/a-tolerable-form-of-murder/#comment-11154 Cris Thu, 26 Oct 2006 14:41:06 +0000 http://www.thetalentshow.org/2006/10/25/a-tolerable-form-of-murder/#comment-11154 I'm impressed that the unnamed WH press corps reporter framed the question the way they did, alluding to the fact that the majority of the "snowflake babies" get poured down the drain. The choice is not between preserving life and committing murder for science, it's between utilizing cells for research and destroying cells as waste. But as Tony Snow said, <blockquote>I don't think that's the choice that the President has presented.</blockquote> I’m impressed that the unnamed WH press corps reporter framed the question the way they did, alluding to the fact that the majority of the “snowflake babies” get poured down the drain. The choice is not between preserving life and committing murder for science, it’s between utilizing cells for research and destroying cells as waste.

But as Tony Snow said,

I don’t think that’s the choice that the President has presented.

]]> By: Hudson http://www.thetalentshow.org/2006/10/25/a-tolerable-form-of-murder/#comment-11153 Hudson Thu, 26 Oct 2006 12:10:24 +0000 http://www.thetalentshow.org/2006/10/25/a-tolerable-form-of-murder/#comment-11153 Greg: I love the piece. Two quick notes: The last line says "back year", and I'm assuming you mean "back yard". The place of the typo saps some of the power out of the punch. (And don't forget to fix it over at ThisModernWorld where I found it, too. Also, Tony Snow was forced to backtrack from the "murder" line, as I recall. Yes, I know, he did so much the way Limbaugh just "apologized" to MJFox, but still....I think you ought to note that fact. If it is in fact a fact. Greg:

I love the piece. Two quick notes:

The last line says “back year”, and I’m assuming you mean “back yard”. The place of the typo saps some of the power out of the punch. (And don’t forget to fix it over at ThisModernWorld where I found it, too.

Also, Tony Snow was forced to backtrack from the “murder” line, as I recall. Yes, I know, he did so much the way Limbaugh just “apologized” to MJFox, but still….I think you ought to note that fact. If it is in fact a fact.

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