Comments on: Madness http://www.thetalentshow.org/2007/04/16/madness/ Just another WordPress weblog Thu, 29 Jul 2010 17:51:45 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=abc hourly 1 By: S Dunlap http://www.thetalentshow.org/2007/04/16/madness/comment-page-1/#comment-11689 S Dunlap Tue, 17 Apr 2007 14:23:01 +0000 http://www.thetalentshow.org/2007/04/16/madness/#comment-11689 Regarding the brain tumor and Wikipedia: Wikipedia is NOT a scholarly source. The article does not state why the tumor as a cause "was discredited." In Richard Restak's book "The Brain" (Restak, by the way, is an M.D., who has written numerous books about the brain) he mentions Whitman's tumor and states that the medical knowledge of the time was so primitive that they could not determine whether the turmor had any effect on his behavior. <i>At that time</i> the effect of a tumor applying pressure to the hippocampus and the amygdala <i>was</i> speculative, but that was then. Wikipedia is a good starting point, but one should never rely on any information it provides as definitive. If anyone can find a scholarly article (such as from JAMA or the Lancet, etc.) that disputes the effect of a tumor on the region of the brain in question, <i>then</i> you have something. Regarding the brain tumor and Wikipedia: Wikipedia is NOT a scholarly source. The article does not state why the tumor as a cause “was discredited.” In Richard Restak’s book “The Brain” (Restak, by the way, is an M.D., who has written numerous books about the brain) he mentions Whitman’s tumor and states that the medical knowledge of the time was so primitive that they could not determine whether the turmor had any effect on his behavior. At that time the effect of a tumor applying pressure to the hippocampus and the amygdala was speculative, but that was then. Wikipedia is a good starting point, but one should never rely on any information it provides as definitive. If anyone can find a scholarly article (such as from JAMA or the Lancet, etc.) that disputes the effect of a tumor on the region of the brain in question, then you have something.

]]> By: SteveB http://www.thetalentshow.org/2007/04/16/madness/comment-page-1/#comment-11686 SteveB Tue, 17 Apr 2007 12:30:29 +0000 http://www.thetalentshow.org/2007/04/16/madness/#comment-11686 <i>Marine Corps training didn’t make that young man go into the tower and shoot all of those people.</i> I was remarking on the fact that no one had mentioned this as a <i>factor</i> in his actions, I wasn't claiming it was the sole cause of his actions. Just as Tim McVeigh's experience burying Iraqi soldiers alive with his tank might have taught him something about the value of human life, and the need to cause some "collateral damage" if you want to send a message? Don't you think there's a connection between the fact that our government promotes the use of overwhelming force to solve <i>its</i> problems while training thousands of young men to kill, and the fact that some of those young men then go on to, you know, kill? Marine Corps training didn’t make that young man go into the tower and shoot all of those people.

I was remarking on the fact that no one had mentioned this as a factor in his actions, I wasn’t claiming it was the sole cause of his actions.

Just as Tim McVeigh’s experience burying Iraqi soldiers alive with his tank might have taught him something about the value of human life, and the need to cause some “collateral damage” if you want to send a message?

Don’t you think there’s a connection between the fact that our government promotes the use of overwhelming force to solve its problems while training thousands of young men to kill, and the fact that some of those young men then go on to, you know, kill?

]]> By: University Update http://www.thetalentshow.org/2007/04/16/madness/comment-page-1/#comment-11685 University Update Tue, 17 Apr 2007 08:24:05 +0000 http://www.thetalentshow.org/2007/04/16/madness/#comment-11685 <strong>Madness...</strong> ... Madness…

…

]]> By: adam http://www.thetalentshow.org/2007/04/16/madness/comment-page-1/#comment-11684 adam Tue, 17 Apr 2007 07:20:33 +0000 http://www.thetalentshow.org/2007/04/16/madness/#comment-11684 greg, I'm not sure where you found that quote (it's not after what I cited from the Charles Whitman Wikipedia page). Nevertheless, Whitman's tumor has hardly been widely "discredited," mostly because of evidence like this: http://brainmind.com/Amygdala44.html "Several days prior to climbing the tower, Charles Whitman wrote himself a letter: 'I don't quite understand what it is that compels me to type this letter.... I don't really understand myself these days... Lately I have been a victim of many unusual and irrational thoughts. These thoughts constantly recur, and it requires a tremendous mental effort to concentrate. I consulted Dr. Cochrum at the University Health Center and asked him to recommend someone that I could consult with about some psychiatric disorders I felt I had.... I talked to a doctor once for about two hours and tried to convey to him my fears that I felt overcome by overwhelming violent impulses. After one session I never saw the Doctor again, and since then I have been fighting my mental turmoil alone, and seemingly to no avail. After my death I wish that an autopsy would be performed to see if there is any visible physical disorder. I have had tremendous headaches in the past and have consumed two large bottles of Excedrin in the past three months.' Post-mortem autopsy of his brain revealed a glioblastoma multiforme tumor the size of a walnut, erupting from beneath the thalamus, impacting the hypothalamus, extending into the temporal lobe and compressing the amygdaloid nucleus (Charles J. Whitman Catastrophe, Medical Aspects. Report to Governor, 9/8/66). The amygdals appears capable of not only triggering and steering hypothalamic activity but acting on higher level neocortical processes so that individuals form emotional ideas . Indeed, the amygdala is able to overwhelm the neocortex and the rest of the brain so so that the person not only forms emotional ideas but responds to them, sometimes with vicious, horrifying results." And if you have a TimesSelect account I suggest this article that discuses the issue in detail: http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F50910FE3E550C728DDDAA0894DF404482&showabstract=1 greg,

I’m not sure where you found that quote (it’s not after what I cited from the Charles Whitman Wikipedia page). Nevertheless, Whitman’s tumor has hardly been widely “discredited,” mostly because of evidence like this:

http://brainmind.com/Amygdala44.html

“Several days prior to climbing the tower, Charles Whitman wrote himself a letter:

‘I don’t quite understand what it is that compels me to type this letter…. I don’t really understand myself these days… Lately I have been a victim of many unusual and irrational thoughts. These thoughts constantly recur, and it requires a tremendous mental effort to concentrate. I consulted Dr. Cochrum at the University Health Center and asked him to recommend someone that I could consult with about some psychiatric disorders I felt I had…. I talked to a doctor once for about two hours and tried to convey to him my fears that I felt overcome by overwhelming violent impulses. After one session I never saw the Doctor again, and since then I have been fighting my mental turmoil alone, and seemingly to no avail. After my death I wish that an autopsy would be performed to see if there is any visible physical disorder. I have had tremendous headaches in the past and have consumed two large bottles of Excedrin in the past three months.’

Post-mortem autopsy of his brain revealed a glioblastoma multiforme tumor the size of a walnut, erupting from beneath the thalamus, impacting the hypothalamus, extending into the temporal lobe and compressing the amygdaloid nucleus (Charles J. Whitman Catastrophe, Medical Aspects. Report to Governor, 9/8/66).

The amygdals appears capable of not only triggering and steering hypothalamic activity but acting on higher level neocortical processes so that individuals form emotional ideas . Indeed, the amygdala is able to overwhelm the neocortex and the rest of the brain so so that the person not only forms emotional ideas but responds to them, sometimes with vicious, horrifying results.”

And if you have a TimesSelect account I suggest this article that discuses the issue in detail:

http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F50910FE3E550C728DDDAA0894DF404482&showabstract=1

]]> By: M Aurelius http://www.thetalentshow.org/2007/04/16/madness/comment-page-1/#comment-11679 M Aurelius Tue, 17 Apr 2007 03:01:03 +0000 http://www.thetalentshow.org/2007/04/16/madness/#comment-11679 Greg, I usually agree with you, but you are wrong about this one. Violence begets violence and the US has a culture of violence. With an even larger population, this kind of thing is far rarer in Europe, for example. Videogames, movies and all the rest of it don't cause this by themselves, but they are enablers, particularly if you are already on the fringe, weapons are easy to find, and social acceptance, even worship, of war and violence is high. "Sometimes people snap" is a poor substitute for thinking about this problem as what it is, a problem. How about waiting to find out who this guy was before reaching facile conclusions? Greg, I usually agree with you, but you are wrong about this one. Violence begets violence and the US has a culture of violence. With an even larger population, this kind of thing is far rarer in Europe, for example. Videogames, movies and all the rest of it don’t cause this by themselves, but they are enablers, particularly if you are already on the fringe, weapons are easy to find, and social acceptance, even worship, of war and violence is high.

“Sometimes people snap” is a poor substitute for thinking about this problem as what it is, a problem.

How about waiting to find out who this guy was before reaching facile conclusions?

]]> By: Amanda Marcotte http://www.thetalentshow.org/2007/04/16/madness/comment-page-1/#comment-11678 Amanda Marcotte Tue, 17 Apr 2007 02:33:41 +0000 http://www.thetalentshow.org/2007/04/16/madness/#comment-11678 Most people who study Whitman at any length conclude that the relentless abuse he suffered at the hands of his tyrannical father is probably what made him a sociopath. We can't simply shrug off the fact that people "snap" and do things like this on a regular basis. There's a reason that men "snap" and women don't. There's a reason that men particularly obsessed with hyper-masculine culture snap. And no, it's not video games. Most people who study Whitman at any length conclude that the relentless abuse he suffered at the hands of his tyrannical father is probably what made him a sociopath. We can’t simply shrug off the fact that people “snap” and do things like this on a regular basis. There’s a reason that men “snap” and women don’t. There’s a reason that men particularly obsessed with hyper-masculine culture snap. And no, it’s not video games.

]]> By: Jude http://www.thetalentshow.org/2007/04/16/madness/comment-page-1/#comment-11675 Jude Tue, 17 Apr 2007 00:36:30 +0000 http://www.thetalentshow.org/2007/04/16/madness/#comment-11675 Marine Corps training didn't make that young man go into the tower and shoot all of those people. Neither did it make him stab his mother and wife to death. The Marines didn't supply him with the weapons he used. In fact, the Corps might not even have made him a better shooter--he was pretty crack to start with. This man had serious emotional problems, and he knew it. Check out how he wanted his life insurance to be spent (if it paid off). The Columbine kids weren't in the service. So you can't blame the USMC for Whitman any more than you can blame video games or music for Harris and Klebold. Marine Corps training didn’t make that young man go into the tower and shoot all of those people. Neither did it make him stab his mother and wife to death. The Marines didn’t supply him with the weapons he used. In fact, the Corps might not even have made him a better shooter–he was pretty crack to start with.

This man had serious emotional problems, and he knew it. Check out how he wanted his life insurance to be spent (if it paid off).

The Columbine kids weren’t in the service.

So you can’t blame the USMC for Whitman any more than you can blame video games or music for Harris and Klebold.

]]> By: greg http://www.thetalentshow.org/2007/04/16/madness/comment-page-1/#comment-11674 greg Mon, 16 Apr 2007 23:59:28 +0000 http://www.thetalentshow.org/2007/04/16/madness/#comment-11674 Adam, you left off the next sentence in that quote : <em>"The findings of a brain tumor, however, were later discredited as a causitive factor in the shootings."</em> Adam, you left off the next sentence in that quote :

“The findings of a brain tumor, however, were later discredited as a causitive factor in the shootings.”

]]> By: SteveB http://www.thetalentshow.org/2007/04/16/madness/comment-page-1/#comment-11673 SteveB Mon, 16 Apr 2007 23:46:38 +0000 http://www.thetalentshow.org/2007/04/16/madness/#comment-11673 Interesting no one mentions his "training" in the Marines as a factor. Support the troops! Interesting no one mentions his “training” in the Marines as a factor. Support the troops!

]]> By: adam http://www.thetalentshow.org/2007/04/16/madness/comment-page-1/#comment-11672 adam Mon, 16 Apr 2007 23:09:12 +0000 http://www.thetalentshow.org/2007/04/16/madness/#comment-11672 It's also believed by many that a disformation in his brain that led to psychological trauma: from Wikipedia "It was revealed during the autopsy that Whitman had a cancerous glioblastoma tumor in the hypothalamus region of his brain. Some theorised that it may have been pressed against the nearby amygdala, which can affect emotive passion. This has led some neurologists to speculate that his medical condition was in some way responsible for the attacks. [4][5]." It was also part of a debate in the NY Times magazine some weeks back. It’s also believed by many that a disformation in his brain that led to psychological trauma:

from Wikipedia “It was revealed during the autopsy that Whitman had a cancerous glioblastoma tumor in the hypothalamus region of his brain. Some theorised that it may have been pressed against the nearby amygdala, which can affect emotive passion. This has led some neurologists to speculate that his medical condition was in some way responsible for the attacks. [4][5].”

It was also part of a debate in the NY Times magazine some weeks back.

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