Comments on: If we don’t play into the terrorist’s hands, the terrorists have won. http://www.thetalentshow.org/2007/07/01/if-we-dont-play-into-the-terrorists-hands-the-terrorists-have-won/ Just another WordPress weblog Thu, 04 Dec 2008 02:39:30 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.2 By: russ http://www.thetalentshow.org/2007/07/01/if-we-dont-play-into-the-terrorists-hands-the-terrorists-have-won/#comment-13620 russ Fri, 06 Jul 2007 09:51:42 +0000 http://www.thetalentshow.org/2007/07/01/if-we-dont-play-into-the-terrorists-hands-the-terrorists-have-won/#comment-13620 Pet peeve: it's "take the reins", not "take the reigns". Pet peeve: it’s “take the reins”, not “take the reigns”.

]]> By: Joel http://www.thetalentshow.org/2007/07/01/if-we-dont-play-into-the-terrorists-hands-the-terrorists-have-won/#comment-13559 Joel Tue, 03 Jul 2007 11:49:58 +0000 http://www.thetalentshow.org/2007/07/01/if-we-dont-play-into-the-terrorists-hands-the-terrorists-have-won/#comment-13559 Jeff, good thoughts. You're right that Iraq was a secular state when we invaded, but the fight in Iraq we're in right now is against Al Qaeda and other likeminded groups. (Al Qaeda in Iraq, the Islamic State in Iraq, the Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq, etc.) The establishment of a U.S.-friendly client state in Iraq would indeed trigger resentment among radical Muslims, but what about ordinary Muslims? If this so-called client state was a GOOD state (unlike the ones run by the Shah or Mubarak), with democracy and solid institutions, wouldn't this be a blow to the credibility of the people who are promoting Sharia states? I'm thinking about how best to drive ordinary Muslims away from bin Laden's ideology. I don't think that blowing up an Arab country and then retreating from that country in disgrace under Al Qaeda's attacks is the best way to do that. Jeff, good thoughts. You’re right that Iraq was a secular state when we invaded, but the fight in Iraq we’re in right now is against Al Qaeda and other likeminded groups. (Al Qaeda in Iraq, the Islamic State in Iraq, the Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq, etc.) The establishment of a U.S.-friendly client state in Iraq would indeed trigger resentment among radical Muslims, but what about ordinary Muslims? If this so-called client state was a GOOD state (unlike the ones run by the Shah or Mubarak), with democracy and solid institutions, wouldn’t this be a blow to the credibility of the people who are promoting Sharia states? I’m thinking about how best to drive ordinary Muslims away from bin Laden’s ideology. I don’t think that blowing up an Arab country and then retreating from that country in disgrace under Al Qaeda’s attacks is the best way to do that.

]]> By: Jeff http://www.thetalentshow.org/2007/07/01/if-we-dont-play-into-the-terrorists-hands-the-terrorists-have-won/#comment-13556 Jeff Tue, 03 Jul 2007 05:00:00 +0000 http://www.thetalentshow.org/2007/07/01/if-we-dont-play-into-the-terrorists-hands-the-terrorists-have-won/#comment-13556 Joel, I think you're making a fundamental mistake about the psychology of Islamic fundamentalism when you say that a US victory in Iraq would be a deathblow to his movement. First of all, the war in Iraq isn't against Al Qaeda or any similar or allied organization, it's against an unrelated Muslim-majority nation that was actively and violently opposed to fundamentalist Islam and Sharia law. Our defeat of the Baath regime was a boon to these people. Secondly, the establishment of another US-friendly client state in the region would definitely engender a great deal of additional resentment among its subjects and neighboring peoples who would see the US as an even greater threat to their security and national sovereignty. Remember that Saudi Arabia's close association with US militarism is a very important part of what attracts Muslims to anti-US violent extremist groups in the first place, in spite of the fact that Saudi Arabia is a medieval-style monarchy governed in a closer approximation of Sharia law than is likely to be present in a democratized Iraq. The prospect of our success in subjugating Iraq does indeed frighten them, but don't make the mistake of believing that this would decrease their resolve; the more force we apply, the stronger the backlash will be. Joel, I think you’re making a fundamental mistake about the psychology of Islamic fundamentalism when you say that a US victory in Iraq would be a deathblow to his movement. First of all, the war in Iraq isn’t against Al Qaeda or any similar or allied organization, it’s against an unrelated Muslim-majority nation that was actively and violently opposed to fundamentalist Islam and Sharia law. Our defeat of the Baath regime was a boon to these people. Secondly, the establishment of another US-friendly client state in the region would definitely engender a great deal of additional resentment among its subjects and neighboring peoples who would see the US as an even greater threat to their security and national sovereignty. Remember that Saudi Arabia’s close association with US militarism is a very important part of what attracts Muslims to anti-US violent extremist groups in the first place, in spite of the fact that Saudi Arabia is a medieval-style monarchy governed in a closer approximation of Sharia law than is likely to be present in a democratized Iraq. The prospect of our success in subjugating Iraq does indeed frighten them, but don’t make the mistake of believing that this would decrease their resolve; the more force we apply, the stronger the backlash will be.

]]> By: Joel http://www.thetalentshow.org/2007/07/01/if-we-dont-play-into-the-terrorists-hands-the-terrorists-have-won/#comment-13551 Joel Tue, 03 Jul 2007 00:21:39 +0000 http://www.thetalentshow.org/2007/07/01/if-we-dont-play-into-the-terrorists-hands-the-terrorists-have-won/#comment-13551 "our weakening resolve emboldens our enemies." Exactly. Britain's resolve weakens, and they are rewarded with bombings. Retreating from terrorists only ensures more terrorism. How many terrorist attacks have there been in the United States since the Iraq War started? Toby, yes, bin Laden wants to bleed us dry in Iraq. But he sure as heck doesn't want us to WIN in Iraq. That would be a deathblow for his movement. Which is why we need to win. “our weakening resolve emboldens our enemies.”

Exactly. Britain’s resolve weakens, and they are rewarded with bombings. Retreating from terrorists only ensures more terrorism. How many terrorist attacks have there been in the United States since the Iraq War started?

Toby, yes, bin Laden wants to bleed us dry in Iraq. But he sure as heck doesn’t want us to WIN in Iraq. That would be a deathblow for his movement. Which is why we need to win.

]]> By: Autumn Harvest http://www.thetalentshow.org/2007/07/01/if-we-dont-play-into-the-terrorists-hands-the-terrorists-have-won/#comment-13538 Autumn Harvest Mon, 02 Jul 2007 18:27:17 +0000 http://www.thetalentshow.org/2007/07/01/if-we-dont-play-into-the-terrorists-hands-the-terrorists-have-won/#comment-13538 I have always been against the Iraq war, and always thought that it was a godsend for the terrorists. That said, I have to say that I hate the sort of logic used here. First, on a technical level, there is no what "make[s] the terrorists happy." The terrorists are diverse and uncoordinated, with different beliefs and strategies. As for these particular terrorists, there's no way at this point of saying what they wanted. Yes, maybe they want to goad Britain into staying. Or maybe they want Britain's expected scale-back to look like a surrender to terrorists. Or maybe they're dumb-asses who don't have well-thought-out plans. On a more fundamental level, I hate this focus on "what do the terrorists want?" with the implication that we need to figure out what they want, and do the opposite. Why the f--k do I care what the terrorists want? If I find out that the terrorists like animals, should I go home and kick my dog? Maybe our foreign policy should be based on what will be best for the U.S. and the world, rather than just the opposite of what some lunatics want. I have always been against the Iraq war, and always thought that it was a godsend for the terrorists. That said, I have to say that I hate the sort of logic used here.

First, on a technical level, there is no what “make[s] the terrorists happy.” The terrorists are diverse and uncoordinated, with different beliefs and strategies. As for these particular terrorists, there’s no way at this point of saying what they wanted. Yes, maybe they want to goad Britain into staying. Or maybe they want Britain’s expected scale-back to look like a surrender to terrorists. Or maybe they’re dumb-asses who don’t have well-thought-out plans.

On a more fundamental level, I hate this focus on “what do the terrorists want?” with the implication that we need to figure out what they want, and do the opposite. Why the f–k do I care what the terrorists want? If I find out that the terrorists like animals, should I go home and kick my dog? Maybe our foreign policy should be based on what will be best for the U.S. and the world, rather than just the opposite of what some lunatics want.

]]> By: Mike Meyer http://www.thetalentshow.org/2007/07/01/if-we-dont-play-into-the-terrorists-hands-the-terrorists-have-won/#comment-13537 Mike Meyer Mon, 02 Jul 2007 18:23:08 +0000 http://www.thetalentshow.org/2007/07/01/if-we-dont-play-into-the-terrorists-hands-the-terrorists-have-won/#comment-13537 ROLLED UP IN BARBED WIRE? Is every move, every breath tearing out a chunk if your flesh. To SURVIVE the experience one must move CAREFULLY AND WITH PURPOSE and it won't be without pain, BLOOD, torn flesh. Ist move--CALL NANCY PELOSI@ 1-202-225-0100 discuss IMPEACHMENT. IMPEACHMENT WILL BE PAINFUL, but we may yet survive. ROLLED UP IN BARBED WIRE? Is every move, every breath tearing out a chunk if your flesh. To SURVIVE the experience one must move CAREFULLY AND WITH PURPOSE and it won’t be without pain, BLOOD, torn flesh. Ist move–CALL NANCY PELOSI@ 1-202-225-0100 discuss IMPEACHMENT. IMPEACHMENT WILL BE PAINFUL, but we may yet survive.

]]> By: Toby http://www.thetalentshow.org/2007/07/01/if-we-dont-play-into-the-terrorists-hands-the-terrorists-have-won/#comment-13530 Toby Mon, 02 Jul 2007 12:58:56 +0000 http://www.thetalentshow.org/2007/07/01/if-we-dont-play-into-the-terrorists-hands-the-terrorists-have-won/#comment-13530 Quite right! Of course, they want us to bleed ourselves dry in Iraq. Bin Laden actually said so. We are setting ourselves up for a military disaster along the lines of Nicias in Syracuse, Varus in Teutoburg Forest, Gordon in Khartoom, etc. Look them up to see what they have in common with each other and with the current situation. And, of course, as soon as we suffer the inevitable major defeat, the right will blame it on the left for not "supporting the troops," and the American people will gladly stone the scapegoat, and perhaps the very Republic in the process. This, by the way, is coming from a graduate of The Citadel who served on active duty when Bush was avoiding it. Quite right! Of course, they want us to bleed ourselves dry in Iraq. Bin Laden actually said so.
We are setting ourselves up for a military disaster along the lines of Nicias in Syracuse, Varus in Teutoburg Forest, Gordon in Khartoom, etc. Look them up to see what they have in common with each other and with the current situation.
And, of course, as soon as we suffer the inevitable major defeat, the right will blame it on the left for not “supporting the troops,” and the American people will gladly stone the scapegoat, and perhaps the very Republic in the process.
This, by the way, is coming from a graduate of The Citadel who served on active duty when Bush was avoiding it.

]]> By: Jeff http://www.thetalentshow.org/2007/07/01/if-we-dont-play-into-the-terrorists-hands-the-terrorists-have-won/#comment-13529 Jeff Mon, 02 Jul 2007 12:42:24 +0000 http://www.thetalentshow.org/2007/07/01/if-we-dont-play-into-the-terrorists-hands-the-terrorists-have-won/#comment-13529 Look, I'm as anti-war as anyone, but honestly this is just poor logic. We all know that a long-term paucity of terrorist attacks in the UK would be trumpeted by opponents of the war as proof that a pullout is a good idea, and rightly so. On the other hand, here we have you implying that an <i>increase</i> in terrorism also demonstrates the prudence of a pullout, for the dubious reason that it makes terrorists angry. Ever hear of falsifiability? You can't have it both ways, and to try is to exhibit the same sort of flawed thinking as right-wingers who would have us believe that either an increase <i>or</i> a decrease in terror attacks justifies the present strategy, because it either shows that we've been successful in preventing attacks <i>or</i> that we need to maintain aggression because it proves that terrorists don't like what we're doing. This is fallacious thinking and we can do better even if the other side generally doesn't. Look, I’m as anti-war as anyone, but honestly this is just poor logic. We all know that a long-term paucity of terrorist attacks in the UK would be trumpeted by opponents of the war as proof that a pullout is a good idea, and rightly so. On the other hand, here we have you implying that an increase in terrorism also demonstrates the prudence of a pullout, for the dubious reason that it makes terrorists angry. Ever hear of falsifiability? You can’t have it both ways, and to try is to exhibit the same sort of flawed thinking as right-wingers who would have us believe that either an increase or a decrease in terror attacks justifies the present strategy, because it either shows that we’ve been successful in preventing attacks or that we need to maintain aggression because it proves that terrorists don’t like what we’re doing. This is fallacious thinking and we can do better even if the other side generally doesn’t.

]]> By: University Update - Iraq - If we don’t play into the terrorist’s hands, the terrorists have won. http://www.thetalentshow.org/2007/07/01/if-we-dont-play-into-the-terrorists-hands-the-terrorists-have-won/#comment-13517 University Update - Iraq - If we don’t play into the terrorist’s hands, the terrorists have won. Mon, 02 Jul 2007 04:51:19 +0000 http://www.thetalentshow.org/2007/07/01/if-we-dont-play-into-the-terrorists-hands-the-terrorists-have-won/#comment-13517 [...] House Link to Article iraq If we don’t play into the terrorist’s hands, the terrorists have won. [...] […] House Link to Article iraq If we don’t play into the terrorist’s hands, the terrorists have won. […]

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