…Worse Than The Crime
From the beginning, this particular aspect of Cheney’s cover-story seemed implausible :
Now some guys with a video camera and a shotgun have busted that myth :
While the details of the shot’s spread are a little hard to see in the video, the pellet penetration pretty much debunks the Vice President’s affadvit to the Kenedy County Sheriff’s Department. Are the media, law enforcement, and Congress paying attention?
UPDATE : On further reflection, the video above is pretty retarded. The boasts about “scientific proof” are over-the-top, the details of the tests are dubious, and the guy performing the test is one of those loons who, among other things, loses sleep over Bush’s membership in the “Skull & Bones”. I still think Cheney’s story reeks, but I should be more careful about giving credibility to some random dude who’s shooting watermelons with a shotgun. I’ve been watching way too many episodes of Mythbusters, I guess.
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Target Practice
TARGET PRACTICE….I think that Shotgungate has pretty much run its course, but I still have to recommend this video to you. It features kick boxing dummies, dead chickens, and watermelons all being filled with with #7.5 birdshot from various distances…
Trackback by Political Animal — February 17, 2006 @ 4:41 pm
The video is of Alex Jones, local nut here in Austin who hosts a public access show. He’ll tell you all about how the UN is putting cancer in Diet Coke.
Comment by Josh — February 17, 2006 @ 5:56 pm
Ad Hominen is often used when you can’t argue on the merits.
Comment by McGurk — February 17, 2006 @ 6:22 pm
Isn’t that the New World Order, Free Mason guy?
Comment by Wickedpinto — February 17, 2006 @ 6:49 pm
Soft rubber is nothing like human flesh. That is why they use “ballistics gel”, which if you’ve ever had jello, is a lot more fragile than even a condom. As for the “into the heart” if the birdshot was located in the heart, not “lodged” in the heart, there is a difference. There is a think called migration (theres a lot of other terms for it.) it basicaly means that anything that enters any of the numerous vascular highways in the human body, ALWAYS ends up in the heart, ALWAYS! That is why people with femoral clots often have heart attacks or strokes. Individuals of an age, or with certain concerns who suffer significant leg pain or a lack of circulation of the leg are often reviewed for just the thing I described.
In addition the “chicken” test, a chicken is quite a bit larger than a quail, also, (I’m not a hunter, but I like watching the dog competitions on OLN) and the purpose of the shot isn’t about killing the bird, especially a small fast moving flushing bird as much as it is, keeping the bird from flying. Though an outright kill is better.
Hows that? not ad hominem.
You note this guy kept saying “scietific” I want a video of him completing an equation before I am interested in him saying “scientific” one more time.
In addition, I just confirmed, Alex jones has a 1 hour documentary on “The New World Order, The Illumati” and something else. you just gave the Washington monthly a chance to give this guy world wide coverage. A little research into the individual would have saved a lot of embarassment.
Comment by wickedpinto — February 17, 2006 @ 7:02 pm
I think your video is pretty accurate. I’ve hunted for a number of years before deciding to quit when it became apparent to me that it wasn’t a sport after all. I’ve seen what a shotgun can do at various distances with different shot and I also think that this man was shot at about 10 yards. based on the amount of shot they say was discover in a small area of the target zone. sure a modified holds a tighter pattern but not that tight at 30 yards. ask any at a “turkey” shoot and i’m sure you will get a pretty good idea how far away the shot was from Mr. whittington.
Comment by carl — February 17, 2006 @ 7:41 pm
Hmm…
Cheney feathers…
http://www.thetalentshow.org/archives/002331.html
Trackback by tribe.net: www.thetalentshow.org — February 17, 2006 @ 8:23 pm
As crude as this test may be why is it we haven’t seen more professional tests from the main stream media? At least from the spread of the pattern it is clear that the shooting took place at a relatively short distance.
Comment by JohnK — February 17, 2006 @ 10:41 pm
Brilliant!!!!
He’s made a few assumptions that he shouldn’t have, for example: the size of the overall pattern matters if the VP drew a perfect bead on the victem’s head, what if he pulled the trigger 18″ off target? A better measure would be the average distance between pellets.
Assuming a dummy is the same “toughness” as human skin is not smart, but the chicken and watermelon nicely compensate for that.
As a published scientist, here’s the experiments I would do:
1) measure the average distance between the pellets in Harry’s face. Use the AP photo and get a close guess if necessary.
2) create shot patterns on large bits of cardboard from different distances and measure the distance between pellets. You’ve got to measure a lot of them and take an average. Some statistical tricks will help here too, to let you know if your findings are real or crap.
3) meat is meat. If you can’t find ballistic geletin, use a roast or some other flesh sample. they won’t perform exactly like a person w/ skin and bone, but it will be close. Use this from different disances to measure penetration. Gel is a lot better, as it is easier to measure accurately, and easier to repeat the experiment.
Still…This set of experiments shows that anyone can do science! It’s not some magical kingdom that is the sole domain of university professors. His results are very good and are one hell of a lot more believeable than what the VP is saying.
/vic
Comment by vic silverfish — February 18, 2006 @ 5:28 am
I’d be interested to see whether Dick Cheney has any connection to the Free Masons.
Comment by malcolmjames — February 18, 2006 @ 5:48 am
As interesting as I find the results of this experiment, I laughed my ass off when he went after the chicken and the watermelon. I was really hoping he’d keep going from there, maybe try to shoot a bag of pudding or a plate of Jeno’s Pizza Rolls.
Personally, I think Cheney was tripping, maybe on mushrooms, and thought that Whittington was a Yeti.
Comment by Joe — February 18, 2006 @ 6:03 am
“There is a think called migration (theres a lot of other terms for it.) it basicaly means that anything that enters any of the numerous vascular highways in the human body, ALWAYS ends up in the heart, ALWAYS! ”
Wasn’t this theory debunked by a doctor from NYC who said that the bird shot was too large to have travelled through the veins then through the lungs and then into the heart.
Comment by Prudence Goodwife — February 18, 2006 @ 6:42 am
“Migration”
This is believeable. It is difficult for birdshot to penetrate the chest wall from any distance. The pellet probably lodged inside the ribcage near where the shoulders join the neck(where there is space that isn’t protected by the ribs). From there, gravity will migrate it south towards the heart.
If the pellet got into a neck artery, it would have lodged in the neck/brain causing a stroke, in a vein, it probably would have lodged in the lungs, or gotten stuck in a valve.
It would be easy to stop all the speculation if the medical reports were released. This won’t happen, his records are private and protected.
Looking at this guys other site, he is a flake, but his experimental work stands up. That’s the great thing about science…any bozo can do good work. If you don’t believe it, design and conduct your own experiments! Proove him wrong!
/vic
Comment by vic silverfish — February 18, 2006 @ 7:06 am
Hey! For the guy calling the “cancer in Diet Coke” story a sign of being a nut job, I suggest you Google benzene and “soft drinks”.
You might just spit out your soda.
Comment by Pepsi — February 18, 2006 @ 8:40 am
(Haven’t read too much of the above)
First note, the shotgun used is not the one that Cheney was using. Although the same gauge and approximate length, the much bigger issue is the choke. There isn’t a single degree of choke, it goes from no choke (straight barrel) to full choke, with extreme differences in spread pattern.
I do agree with wickedpinto, the shot pattern can be a very effective demonstration of distance IF YOU HAVE ACCURATELY REPLICATED THE WEAPON AND CHOKE! A proper test done at many different distances with the choke type on Cheneys weapon, with average spread area and concentration, could nail the distance down to within a foot.
7/10 for attempted science
2/10 for pre-experiment research
0/10 for style (NO credible experiment begins with conjecture, no matter how far fetched or likely true. Science is objective and precise, any conjecture presented is presented for the purpose of being tested within the experiment. In this case, only thoughts related to Cheney’s potential distance from target)
Comment by Meltro — February 18, 2006 @ 9:21 am
I forgot to mention, there is one more thing that can artificially increase the density of the spread: angle
Let us assume for a moment that someone swings a loaded shotgun in your direction, what is your first reaction? You probably don’t stand there dumbfounded facing directly at the weapon, more likely, you at least attempt to turn away.
Draw two dots on a piece of paper. Then, place your chin on the table and look at the dots. Without moving your head, turn the piece of paper. Depending on where you drew the dots, the percieved distance between them will either shrink or grow.
The same thing likely happened in this case to at least SOME degree. Consider for a moment if the lawyer had turned fourty five degrees and two pellets hit (I know more than that hit, consider just these two for the moment): one on the tip of the nose, and the other on his cheek. From the angle the weapon was fired from, there is about 2″ of spread between the shots. If the lawyer then turns to face you, the two shots would now appear only 1″ apart, although the actual spread was 2″.
Just another variable that must be dealt with.
Comment by Meltro — February 18, 2006 @ 9:48 am
I don’t recall conservatives doing any debunking work on the “Vince Foster was killed” theory. But, if people on this site feel it’s in the best interests of political progressiveness to immediately start undermining this attempt to paint Cheney with a broadly-smearing brush, well then I’m sure you know what you’re doing. Keep up the good work! The Bush dynasty thanks you for your continued efforts.
Comment by jack — February 19, 2006 @ 9:01 am
Hmmm, interesting Jack (above poster). In order to criticise the Bush administration we need to make shit up?
Comment by Ａｒｔｈｕｒ — February 20, 2006 @ 8:06 am
I firmly believe that Whittington was much closer to Cheney than 90 feet, but that doctor doesn’t know anatomy. The veins do not go through the lungs on the way to the heart. The lungs have a separate circulatory system that starts with the pulmonary artery. The jugular vein in the neck is big enough to transport birdshot to the heart through the superior vena cava.
Comment by edgarallenpoe — February 21, 2006 @ 8:15 am
yo Arthur- No, we don’t need to make stuff up. But we also don’t need to spend our time separating the rocks from the pebbles that are being thrown at the right wing. Unless, of course, the progressive movement has the energy and resources to mount a successful campaign against the regime, while ALSO simultaneously pointing out to the right wingers what attacks they should and shouldn’t be spending their time defending against. However, you can’t put an opponent on the defensive that way. At least, not a fanatical opponent.
Comment by jack — February 21, 2006 @ 6:59 pm